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I understand preferring Giger's vision of the creature. But there doesn't seem to be anything mechanical in the creature's creation to me.

Where is it getting cables and hoses from when it's entire life cycle seems to be biological?

 paulson games wrote:
I see it like a big bang theory episode.

Smoking hot girl buys a cheap off the shelf Star Trek costume and wears it to convention.

Enter the Sheldon type guy who sees it and is offended that the communications badge isn't regulation X made by so and so company, the stitching pattern isn't authentic and the shoes don't feature the same tread pattern depicted in episode 43. He gets all in a huff about the most minute details which are only known to the most extreme fanboy and his triade makes the girl cry.

The Sheldon type is so consumed with the uber fan aspects that he's completely oblivios to the bigger picture, which is the exsistence of a girl who's actually interested in Star Trek, much less the fact it's a hot girl. Meanwhile his friends who are more grounded are all facepalming.

I don't think anyone is saying they won't buy the aliens just because their toes, hands and entire skin texture are wrong. They might be saying they will buy fewer of them, but mostly they are just saying it's a shame that Prodos got everything right except for the eponymous monster.

You see, I can't not see those terrible dinosaur toes when I look at Prodos' models now.

Oh, and for the record, we don't give hot women in Star trek costumes grief because of their insignia. We give them grief because Troi's outfit is not a Starfleet uniform. Also, women interested in Star Trek--attractive women interested in Star Trek, even--are not rare. At least not around here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eldarain wrote:
I understand preferring Giger's vision of the creature. But there doesn't seem to be anything mechanical in the creature's creation to me.

Where is it getting cables and hoses from when it's entire life cycle seems to be biological?

The same place they get all that silicon from?

Obviously they are raping computers.

 Eldarain wrote:
Where is it getting cables and hoses from when it's entire life cycle seems to be biological?

No idea, but it does look cool. It does make the thing look more alien after all.

 paulson games wrote:

 Imposter101 wrote:
Top kek, 11/10, would concede in debate.

My applogies for having an opinion. You have shamed me into defeat and I will forever more conceed that the Alien1 design is the best there ever was, or could be. Furthermore no possible deviations can allow for anyones enjoyment of the Aliens franchise beyond the original Alien movie. You sir have won the internets, and I am humbled before your greatness.

First you brought up hot chicks in starfleet uniforms as a rare thing (nice gender bias there) in order to call anyone with a different opinion from yourself a Sheldon Cooper. Then you strawmanned him again with the most petulant sarcasm I've seen on Dakka in a long while. And you did this with an account linked to your business, right?

That's... kind of embarrassing.

I always say I appreciate all the bald guys who had daughters and were good dads. It blows me away how many women I've dated/got with that have a great relationship with their bald father. I would imagine the "hot Trekkie chicks" have something similar going on.

PS: For those of you who can't tell the difference between a metal-skinned, glass-toothed hose monster with six fingers, and a fleshy Pumpkinhead with Marge Simpson hands and Yoshi feet, I have some great news!
My Mantic Men at Arms are indistinguishable from great models. I'll sell them them to you for a reasonable rate, the same price as Goldswords since at 28mm they're pretty much the same thing.

Most of us don't obsess over the very first woman we ever saw in our lives and think they don't all need to look like that to be attractive. That's what I think some are doing with the Alien from Alien. Anything else with slightly different features is just inferior apparently.

Hey Prodos, can you please start a new thread and stop spamming this thread with your game updates?

Joyboozer wrote:
Hey Prodos, can you please start a new thread and stop spamming this thread with your game updates?

Tell me about it! This thread is about two sides in a argument insulting each other to try and prove their points!

Joyboozer wrote:
Hey Prodos, can you please start a new thread and stop spamming this thread with your game updates?

I thought one of the reasons why discussion got so off-track is because there really aren't any updates, and won't be any more until at least Monday.

Can't really talk about anything other than what we've seen until then, which is what seems to be happening: people voicing their approval/disapproval of the few model pics there are.

Earth Dragon wrote:
Most of us don't obsess over the very first woman we ever saw in our lives and think they don't all need to look like that to be attractive. That's what I think some are doing with the Alien from Alien. Anything else with slightly different features is just inferior apparently.

First of all, we each have our favorites. My personal favorite is Alien 3's dog alien. However, I responded because people like Paulson Games were ganging up on someone who voiced a reasonable criticism and request. He wanted to see his favorite aliens as models, and he explained what he was looking for. Suddenly he's a permavirgin Sheldon Cooper? Are all criticisms forbidden now? Are you guys really Kroothawking the Raging Heroes thread up in here?

Why is is okay for people in the Dredd threads to prefer certain comics versions or Stallone or anything-but-Stallone, or for people in the Robotech thread to prefer certain portrayals of their mecha, but not okay for people who have fond memories of the first aliens to make the name for themselves, the ones from the beloved first two movies, to prefer those aliens?


And for all the people who claim not to be able to tell the difference (which I, as someone who doesn't have a lot invested in the franchise, find hard to believe), what is the problem with the company catering to the guys who CAN tell the difference? You'll be happy either way. And if Prodos made the good aliens that actually terrified people in the movies that are part of pop culture (and not cash cow garbage), it would make a lot of additional people who have taste happy.

Seriously, are you all arguing that Prodos will alienate (heh) the huge "Alien 4 is the best alien" market should they listen to the "Remember the movies that started a franchise" people? Which will make more money:

A) Prodos sells aliens to easily pleased casual fans and a few to dedicated fans.*
B) Prodos sells the same amount of aliens to easily pleased casual fans and a lot of aliens to the dedicated fans.*

?

Which will help the studio fund more models and expansions for the game?


*There are lots of people who spend thousands of dollars on Aliens costumes, replicas, toys, games, DVD re-releases, etc. Usually they pay more for good quality. Hint hint.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
PS: For those of you who can't tell the difference between a metal-skinned, glass-toothed hose monster with six fingers, and a fleshy Pumpkinhead with Marge Simpson hands and Yoshi feet, I have some great news!
My Mantic Men at Arms are indistinguishable from great models. I'll sell them them to you for a reasonable rate, the same price as Goldswords since at 28mm they're pretty much the same thing.

Dude relax. Most people here aren't pouring over the pictures looking at every individual detail. We take a quick glance to see the defining features (the odd head shape, no eyes, the long spinelike tail) and their brain clicks as "Alien". Its like if I plonked down a WWII Tiger I E from Tunisia next to one from the Eastern front in 1944. To me there are clearly obvious details there that will help immediately distinguish the two vehicles to make them unique. The average Joe however just sees it and thinks "That's a tiger tank, cool!".

This is the same thing. Most people are amazed just to see Aliens models as good as these. The few features they care about are covered, so they're happy. Details like the hands or legs are often hard to see in the movies so most people have no idea what they're "supposed" to look like. I will agree that the feet and hands look cooler in the film stills for the original, but I have a feeling they had a reason. After all, the Marines and Preds look spot on, so perhaps they were resculpted to not break. Bother the fingers and toes on the original Alien are extremely slender and would be easy to break. It wouldn't surprise me if they took some liberties with the models to make them more durable.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
PS: For those of you who can't tell the difference between a metal-skinned, glass-toothed hose monster with six fingers, and a fleshy Pumpkinhead with Marge Simpson hands and Yoshi feet, I have some great news!
My Mantic Men at Arms are indistinguishable from great models. I'll sell them them to you for a reasonable rate, the same price as Goldswords since at 28mm they're pretty much the same thing.

Dude relax. Most people here aren't pouring over the pictures looking at every individual detail. We take a quick glance to see the defining features (the odd head shape, no eyes, the long spinelike tail) and their brain clicks as "Alien". Its like if I plonked down a WWII Tiger I E from Tunisia next to one from the Eastern front in 1944. To me there are clearly obvious details there that will help immediately distinguish the two vehicles to make them unique. The average Joe however just sees it and thinks "That's a tiger tank, cool!".

You mean the same defining features that 1st edition Hormagaunts had? How can anyone complain about the horrorclix aliens if all they care about are "defining features"? If Prodos are trying to make a name for themselves by showing how detailed their models will be, then the details DO matter.

There is a lot of hypocrisy in cheering for the official license so we don't have to buy the knock-offs, and then jumping on the guy who suggest Prodos use the license to make the most popular versions from the most popular movies. It's not like this is a kickstarter thread, where negative comments could potentially (but not really) put off new backers. There is no reason to get defensive about Prodos choosing not to make the aliens that appeared in most people's favorite movies. It was a bad call.

For your tank metaphor, the average Joe is not the entirety of the market. He'll buy the tanks anyway, so why not build the correct tanks in the first place and sell some more of them to the actual tank enthusiasts?

This is the same thing. Most people are amazed just to see Aliens models as good as these. The few features they care about are covered, so they're happy. Details like the hands or legs are often hard to see in the movies so most people have no idea what they're "supposed" to look like. I will agree that the feet and hands look cooler in the film stills for the original, but I have a feeling they had a reason. After all, the Marines and Preds look spot on, so perhaps they were resculpted to not break. Bother the fingers and toes on the original Alien are extremely slender and would be easy to break. It wouldn't surprise me if they took some liberties with the models to make them more durable.

Again, if Prodos could make more people happy than just those who only care about a few features, why not do it?

Besides, there is a lot of difference between sculpting aliens with six fingers in a closed gesture (for sturdiness) or toes wrapped onto textured floor (like historicals do), and just going, "pppft, whatever. Alien 4 hands and toes will see us through. How much did we pay for this inclusive license again?"

I'm not justifying anyone's "reaction" to anything, but there is a lot of source material to draw from and NOBODY should really be clinging too hard to any one particular source.

Prodos stated they aren't focusing one any single source. If you look at their Warzone stuff, they did an excellent job updating it with thought. They had to adjust some fluff and make it a bit less wonky, and there were a number who griped, but it seems well received.

I think everyone needs to just take a step back and consider if things look "good" rather then "exactly like my favorite iteration". I'm sure they want suggestions and everyone is free to give them (and will no matter the situation), but with the aliens in particular, there is always gonna be lots of directions they can go. Let's give Prodos a chance to show a bit of what they got planned before we go crazy.

I know I hope they go the route of "Alien takes on properties of host". That way they can make their own original creation. Others feel that route is garbage, and I can respect that. But I'll sit and see what they got and not react to just a few minis and feel any criticism should be tempered until we see the real direction.

edit: I'm out, this thread is not conducive to good discussion.

Ah.. I wondered when Bob would show up in this thread.. like an alien pulled relentlessly towards the pheromones of a cowering human, this thread has obviously started to represent a more attractive trolling-space than the Mantic threads

 Sheep wrote:
I prefer the CGI one. It looks less like it was made out of spare vacuum cleaner parts.

However, this is where I draw the line...! Heresy!!!

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
stuff

Humor check: fail

I did not imply that his opinion was not valid, nor did I suggest any version he should be forced to adopt. Everyone has their favorites which is cool.

What I was pointing out is that when dealing with die hard fans (in a general sense) who are heavily invested in a particular work they often rail very heavily against anything they don't percieve as adhering religiously to the canon or established designs. They do it because they are super into the subject, but sometimes their zeal is so much that they take it to such an extreme that it ends up being very off-putting to people with a more casual interest in the subject. The casual fan may not particualy care what the minor details are, but when the expert looms in says "well that's fine but you're not a true fan unless you meet this criteria... " that creates a toxic feeling. The expert often overlooks the fact that people are just excited by the general idea or story and the negativity he projects to other fans is sad because he should be embracing and enjoying the fact that others are interested in the same thing he is even if their commitment isn't quite as high.

The expert is obviously a person who loves the subject and delves into the details a great amount, which is admirable but it can easily drive a wedge between them and the casual fan.

As was stated by somebody else eariler in this thread the Aliens franchise is iconic and has a huge emotional conenction with a lot of people. That will generate some pretty heated and passionate responses when people run into something they don't feel fits in perfectly with the way they see the subject as being.



Also when people criticize a sculpt by saying it's bad that's the fastest way to get shut out and disregaurded by the artist. I'm not saying you can't offer criticism but saying something "sucks" or is "bad" isn't the way to lead off that conversation. While there are details that could be improved upon the sculpting quality is considerable and I don't think there's too many people on here that could offer something on a simular level. I think it would have been addressed much better with suggestions to improve the features rather than attacking the sculpt by saying the quality is bad. It is by no means a bad sculpt, but there is room for improvement.

If I could exalt someone's presence in a thread, I would.
Well said again Paulson.

 Forlorn wrote:

 Imposter101 wrote:

 paulson games wrote:

 Imposter101 wrote:
Top kek, 11/10, would concede in debate.

My applogies for having an opinion. You have shamed me into defeat and I will forever more conceed that the Alien1 design is the best there ever was, or could be. Furthermore no possible deviations can allow for anyones enjoyment of the Aliens franchise beyond the original Alien movie. You sir have won the internets, and I am humbled before your greatness.

Great straw man argument right there. It's bound to work eventually. Also, pulling the opinion argument isn't going to work incredibly well, when you yourself are attacking someones opinion. Again, avoid these things, they do not help your position.

Imposter you need to get laid. Jesus.

Maturity at it's finest folks. Please, try and make a valid reprisal, and not fall into the "lol ur a virgun you cany say nuthin". It's a pretty poor ad homiem. As are the others.



Exalted.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 paulson games wrote:

 Imposter101 wrote:
Top kek, 11/10, would concede in debate.

My applogies for having an opinion. You have shamed me into defeat and I will forever more conceed that the Alien1 design is the best there ever was, or could be. Furthermore no possible deviations can allow for anyones enjoyment of the Aliens franchise beyond the original Alien movie. You sir have won the internets, and I am humbled before your greatness.

First you brought up hot chicks in starfleet uniforms as a rare thing (nice gender bias there) in order to call anyone with a different opinion from yourself a Sheldon Cooper. Then you strawmanned him again with the most petulant sarcasm I've seen on Dakka in a long while. And you did this with an account linked to your business, right?

That's... kind of embarrassing.

None of you lot are coming out of this one well, truth be told.

The Aliens according to the books and graphic novels are a bio-enginered species. They are a first wave that enters a planets bio-sphere and lay eggs which then allow the aliens to bio-form themselves to the local wild life taking the traits that offer better design, or with Predator assistance to create better more aggressive prey animals.

This means that there are massive options for alien deigns and ideas from small to bigger.

The aliens were a cast system the Alien in Alien was a drone, so were the ones in Aliens, you only saw the warriors later briefly when the queen hisses and calls back in the 'Sigorny shot where she's holding the flame thrower at the eggs.'

The aliens are supposed to show variance.

As for Kickstarter, would like to see both one thinks, a system release with a basic figure set and use kickstarter to open up the universe with vehicles, mechanical lifters, bigger aliens, alien variants, heavy armour battle suit marines, background aspect books, maybe a new graphic novel option for higher subscribers, etc.

They have a massive amount of background material, out their with graphic novels, alien handbook etc Why not tap it for material and look towards it as an opportunity to see a cross company support.

Lots of stuff available and would be good for everyone's profit margin.

 paulson games wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
stuff

Also when people criticize a sculpt by saying it's bad that's the fastest way to get shut out and disregaurded by the artist. I'm not saying you can't offer criticism but saying something "sucks" or is "bad" isn't the way to lead off that conversation. While there are details that could be improved upon the sculpting quality is considerable and I don't think there's too many people on here that could offer something on a simular level. I think it would have been addressed much better with suggestions to improve the features rather than attacking the sculpt by saying the quality is bad. It is by no means a bad sculpt, but there is room for improvement.

Okay then, why the sculpt isn't great;
>Ribcage section is too toned down, needs to be more raised and rigged
>Head is too rounded, is more banana shapped than phallec
>Hunched, though this might only be the posture of this specific sculpt
>Tail seems way too large at the end, more of a big spike than a barb
>Lacks the biomechanical traits of the original aliens, which was one of the largest traits of Giger's design

Other then that, I'd say the mins are 'okay' at best but don't compare well with the others. The Dog alien seems fine, since even Giger's original design was a 'streamlined' xenomorph.

Vasquez: "Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are"...........

I, personally, would love to see Rhino aliens.....GET SOME!!

 Ruglud wrote:
This game opens up all sort of crossovers as well...

Superman vs
Batman vs
Judge Dredd vs

to name but three - although the ultimate is Batman vs Alien vs Predator...

Spoiler:

Nope Marshal law vs
Lobo vs
and Grendel Vs

If realy nitpicking they should go with the original Giger designs but then it would become an 18+ game.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
My personal favorite is Alien 3's dog alien.

Alien3 doesn't exist in my universe, the first 5 minutes kill the whole film for me.


Personally i would like to see every alien version, they could be portrayed as different types within a hive.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 paulson games wrote:

 Imposter101 wrote:
Top kek, 11/10, would concede in debate.

My applogies for having an opinion. You have shamed me into defeat and I will forever more conceed that the Alien1 design is the best there ever was, or could be. Furthermore no possible deviations can allow for anyones enjoyment of the Aliens franchise beyond the original Alien movie. You sir have won the internets, and I am humbled before your greatness.

First you brought up hot chicks in starfleet uniforms as a rare thing (nice gender bias there) in order to call anyone with a different opinion from yourself a Sheldon Cooper. Then you strawmanned him again with the most petulant sarcasm I've seen on Dakka in a long while. And you did this with an account linked to your business, right?

That's... kind of embarrassing.

None of you lot are coming out of this one well, truth be told.

There is that, actually.

So... time to get this one back on track.

Rule #1 and all that, yes?

Hopefully with a real update on Monday, things can become more focused next week.

But until then, on topic, polite, etc.

Thanks!

Earth Dragon wrote:
I, personally, would love to see Rhino aliens.....GET SOME!!

agreed, plus the snake and bull xenomorph's.....and the Yautja jetbikes from the comics

Hurry up Monday, this thread is on an express elevator to hell! (Sorry, Aliens was on TV again last night! )

Really agree with Paulson Games, but also at the same time you can't please 100% of people 100% of the time, and what's important for one person won't be for another. I will say at least the criticism so far (what there has been of it) has at least been constructive, rather than just throw away comments of the kind that turn companies away from public forums.

Anyway! Thought it would be fitting to change my Avatar, and please feel free to join me anyone who is excited about the release of this game!

As another little aside, found this tremendously cool photo while searching around the web..
http://onlyhdwallpapers.com/wallpaper/aliens_le_retour_1794_hudson_let_just_bug_out_high_resolution_desktop_1500x1186_wallpaper-400495.jpg

... Did you just steal my avatar ?

 Sidstyler wrote:
The original design from Alien has a lot more "mechanical" bits on it, like on the head/neck for example, where you can clearly see details that look literally like power cables or hoses (because the original suit could very likely have actual vacuum parts on it, since Giger's famous for his biomechanical art style), where the later design/CGI just has a lumpy organic mess instead, with only vague hints of ribbing/cabling anymore.

Yes. It is the difference between genius and generic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pacific wrote:

Really agree with Paulson Games, but also at the same time you can't please 100% of people 100% of the time, and what's important for one person won't be for another

It really is an absurd position to take.

Prodos can be true to the designs and make them as accurate as possible, thereby pleasing the hardcore fans and also the people who don't care.

Or, Prodos can just make a Pumpkinhead, thereby making the hardcore fans sad BUT still pleasing the people who don't care.

Why are the people who don't care actively arguing for a Pumpkinhead?


For ROBOTECH/MACROSS Fans:

ORIGINAL


"GOOD ENOUGH"



For TERMINATOR fans:

ORIGINAL


"GOOD ENOUGH"



for TANK FANS or TREADHEADS:

ORIGINAL


"GOOD ENOUGH"