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 Hellfury wrote:
The info you just provided doesn't make the off topic, and ultimately circular, mental masturbatory execises in futility any more engaging.to read or participate in

You're free to get lost if a thread doesn't interest you. But you aren't in a position to decide what is off-topic. Even if you were, you'd have a hard time explaining why the history of the Aliens and Predator licenses is irrelevant to the discussion. Of course, we don't know the details of the license Prodos holds from Fox. But even without being privy to that agreement, we can reason from what has happened in the past to see that there is more to the issue of producing or not producing, for example, Ripley or Dutch figures than an actor's rights in her or his likeness.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
£290,000 should be more than possible and the Power Loader... wow. I'll have to get one of them.

Another 10 GBP for 20k GBP, huh? Sigh.

Not to put a downer on this thread (*sniggers*), but is there much difference between “Reach $X amount to receive $Y amount more stuff of your choice” and “Reach $X amount to receive specific models A, B and C”?

Surely a stretch goal that lets you pick what you want is better than one that nets you something you may not want at all?

What does 2000 backers payback time mean? I thought that stretch goal was for everyone of in the pipe and above and not just paybacktime backers. Or do you think that is in addition to?

Whatever. Beats me.

Free preatorian is nice though. The rest... meh.

£270,000 for another free model? Why couldn't of the Queen been £270,000? Seriously doubting we'll get to £290,000 in ten days time. This KickStarter has been one disappointment after another. Real shame.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Surely a stretch goal that lets you pick what you want is better than one that nets you something you may not want at all?

I quite agree. We have both so far, unless Prodos has retconned it.

Even so, +X GBP of "free" add-ons (1) is boring and (2) smacks of a certain "the pledge levels should already be sweeter" filler quality.

 Hellfury wrote:
What does 2000 backers payback time mean?

It means they'll give us a "free" miniature, I believe. This was promised a while back after almost no one liked the "get a buddy to pledge and we'll give you both a free miniature."

It's good to see the rest of the goals, thankfully the Queen isn't above 300,000.

Kind of wish the power loader was a USCM weaponised variant. Not sure what the difference will be in terms of aesthetic of the Young Blood Predators, compared to the three we have already seen. They would have been better giving us an Elder Predator that was more armoured.

I think if these goals had been revealed from the start it would have helped massively

I'm curious about how Prodos is taking the long term view of this product, hoping to do the license justice for years, while at the same time saying the minis they spent the most time and care on will only be sold during the kickstarter...or maybe in late 2015; they're not sure; they haven't thought about it; it's soooo far away.

I really hope they put at least as much effort into the actual retail product. Should it not be top-notch, I'll always wonder how much they skimped on it due to the kickstarter and if they felt like the retail customers didn't deserve as nice a product. The way they are running this does not endear me to Prodos.

 Medium of Death wrote:
I think if these goals had been revealed from the start it would have helped massively

That raises an interesting point -- how would people have reacted to so many "get more add-on money" goals from the start. I don't believe it would have changed much; the complaint at the beginning was that the stretch goals were just approaching what the initial reward should have been.

Well, here's hoping we get to see some of these new models rather than recolored pics of action figures. I think that's the only thing that will keep me on board at this point.

True, I still think that stretch for £210 backers and up is a bit of kick in the teeth. Have Prodos updated that chart rundown now that a few more goals have been unlocked?

I think they said in the video they were going to get proper pictures up of the existing kits to show detail. Hopefully we'll have those new renders no later than Wednesday.

As for the Elder/Armoured Predator, they can draw inspiration from AvP, as the Predators in that looked awesome despite being Young Bloods. Hmm perhaps their Young Bloods will look like this...

Do eeet! Make it, make it now! C'mon Prodos, the design is right here!

STOKED from the finally fully-filled out stretch goals! I can't understand why people think free stuff is bad... Gonna have to consider upping my pledge from "Payback Time" to "Real Aliens Ain't From Mars" depending on how much the upcoming stretch goals run for...

Also, PLEASE DO NOT use the Predator designs from AVP, they look just awful. Too fat and broad, they look like they can hardly move. I'm curious to see how Young Bloods are differed in the minis compared to a regular Predator hunting pack...

Medium of Death wrote:
As for the Elder/Armoured Predator, they can draw inspiration from AvP, as the Predators in that looked awesome despite being Young Bloods

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Also, PLEASE DO NOT use the Predator designs from AVP, they look just awful. Too fat and broad, they look like they can hardly move. I'm curious to see how Young Bloods are differed in the minis compared to a regular Predator hunting pack...

Huh - what will they do?!?

I'm not sure what angle they'll end up going. I can only assume Yound Bloods having more armour is either

A: A personal choice, as the other 2 that join him in that film arn't overly armoured
B: A rank thing, where younger less experienced wear more and the more experienced chaps shed it in favour of mobility/rule of cool.
C: A combo of the above.

I don't think the Predators in the AvP series were any broader than the orginal. It's just the armour that particular one is wearing.

edit clearly picture, but without the caption..

 Alpharius wrote:

Medium of Death wrote:
As for the Elder/Armoured Predator, they can draw inspiration from AvP, as the Predators in that looked awesome despite being Young Bloods

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Also, PLEASE DO NOT use the Predator designs from AVP, they look just awful. Too fat and broad, they look like they can hardly move. I'm curious to see how Young Bloods are differed in the minis compared to a regular Predator hunting pack...

Huh - what will they do?!?

cough*comics*cough

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I'm curious about how Prodos is taking the long term view of this product, hoping to do the license justice for years, while at the same time saying the minis they spent the most time and care on will only be sold during the kickstarter...or maybe in late 2015; they're not sure; they haven't thought about it; it's soooo far away. I really hope they put at least as much effort into the actual retail product. Should it not be top-notch, I'll always wonder how much they skimped on it due to the kickstarter and if they felt like the retail customers didn't deserve as nice a product. The way they are running this does not endear me to Prodos.

The retail product is often better than the KS product, from my experience. Sedition wars is a glaring example, but they seem to work out the kinks in KS as a beta tester you pay to be (kinda like with any GW product, so most here should be used to that). The retail version has the potential to be pretty good, depending on where they get the models manufactured. As good as the resin detail? Likely not. But horrible? even by comparison? Even less likely. About the only benefit you get from KS is earlier (sometimes...) and perhaps more for the same amount of money. (sometimes) If Fox is as involved in all of this as Prodos claims (which I don't doubt, look at GW and LoTR), then I am would bet that Fox would be less willing to allow subpar into the realm of general release retail than Prodos will. Judging by how this KS is being run retroactovely instead of proactively, I will bet retail is the best way to go. I would follow my own advice on that if it wasn't for wanting colonial marines asap.

I know not the most reliable, but surely the daily pledges/daily total are pretty hard for Kicktraq to feth up?

Not looking the healthiest, imho. They need to get those renders/actual kit pictures out.

Ehh, its following the standard curve really. And it kind of reminds me of how Mars Attacks went. Seems possible that known IPs get a huge surge at the beginning, as established fans flock to their favorites, and then peter out pretty hard in the middle.

I don't look at kicktraqs that often, but I think the curves tend to be a bit softer for project x or y, but this really reminds me of MA, so maybe its a licensed product thing. And of course, this isn't *quite* what some folks were expecting/hoping for, I know the resin material has killed it for me for instance. Mantic whipped out some pretty strong damage control to halt a backslide near the end, perhaps Prodos will be able to follow suit and get you guys to that alien queen you've been clamoring for

Will be interesting to see if it suffers a dip like Mars Attacks had. Will help isolate the cause, was it discontent (as there is some here too now) or was it due to MA's comic con pledge level shenanigans combined with the really long campaign throwing people off as the shininess wears off.

GrimDork wrote:Ehh, its following the standard curve really. And it kind of reminds me of how Mars Attacks went. Seems possible that known IPs get a huge surge at the beginning, as established fans flock to their favorites, and then peter out pretty hard in the middle.

Mars Attack was actually a bit of an anomaly at the end as its tail was markedly smaller than its head. In most big name kickstarters, the tail is at least as big as the initial rush and in some cases much bigger if the KS was run very well or was quite generous. Mars Attack has a few days of losing money that was finally partially corrected in time for the final 48 hour tail.

Medium of Death wrote:
I know not the most reliable, but surely the daily pledges/daily total are pretty hard for Kicktraq to feth up?

Not looking the healthiest, imho. They need to get those renders/actual kit pictures out.

I'd say added value at the 75 GBP level is what needs to get bumped. The large amount 20k stretch that only rewarded the biggest spenders being announced during the middle ho-hum section of a kickstarter and combined with other issues has IMO impacted this campaign significantly. The quickest and easiest way to address it (besides what they've already done via the second video.. obviously not the first as it had the opposite effect) would be to complete the stretch with a 5 GBP free add on at 75 GBP to go along with the 10/15 bonus at 125/215 pledges. I personally think that increasing rewards are better than all or nothing ones at high levels.

Bob- note the language you're talking about was referring to "box contents". The "box contents" of this are going to be produced in plastic, but it'll be a longer lead time and they'll be single piece.

The add-ons that have been unlocked are not going to be made in plastic from what I have seen, so those would still be resin later. As would later "add-ons".

The recovery today was actually quite nice for the pledge amount, although a signifcant increase in backers will be needed to raise another 100K and get to the Queen. I think that should be pretty easy with the final boost, though- here's hoping

Those stretches look quite nice. Freebies including: an extra 10 pounds of add-ons for everybody, an extra 10 pounds if we hit 2000 backers, and a free Praetorian! These all look to be applicable to all pledge levels, which is of course great

And every "item" but the Queen is actually unlocked at 250K. Looking forward to hearing more about the wargaming rulebook (next stretch) and seeing the 2 pledge levels they plan to add for wargamers.

 GrimDork wrote:
And it kind of reminds me of how Mars Attacks went.

MA had quite a bit more money at the similar mark in the funding period (or even just on the same day in), which is rather notable considering the great disparity in the licenses.

 warboss wrote:
The large amount 20k stretch that only rewarded the biggest spenders being announced during the middle ho-hum section of a kickstarter and combined with other issues has IMO impacted this campaign significantly.

I tend to agree; that certainly eroded my good will quite a bit even as I made the calculations confirming it was a good deal (so long as one wants to base boxes). Presentation is important, after all.

 RiTides wrote:
Looking forward to hearing more about the wargaming rulebook

Me too. Although after the vid, I am a bit concerned about whether this will work weal or woe.

That's what makes me crazy about this one Manchu, I know I was sweating bullets for MA when I heard this was gonna hit on MA's closing weekend... And it should have cause some rukus, I figured there were *way* more AvP fans. Maybe less of them are in the board/war gaming hobbies?

And from that logic... board/war gamers must simply LOVE cowboys and cthulus, can't wrap my head around that one either :p

Manchu wrote:

 GrimDork wrote:
And it kind of reminds me of how Mars Attacks went.

MA had quite a but more money at the similar mark in the funding period (or even just on the same day in), which is rather notable considering the great disparity in the licenses.

It had about $100K more this many days in (around $400K) and ended up tapering and holding around $450K for quite a while.

I could see this campaign holding around $325K (200K Pounds, which it's only around 10K short of) for a while, before boosting up to unlock the Queen towards the end. It only needs to get to around $470K to unlock the Queen, and I think this should definitely be able to raise a half million, even in resin as more of a boutique item.

But it's not "boutique" to me as a wargamer as I'm used to these prices for high quality resin- or even much higher, as my recent FW order still indicates! With the next stretch after the Crusher being the wargaming rulebook, I think a different crowd may get involved to help the middle of the campaign (which will be shorter anyway, since this is a shorter campaign) before the boost that the end will most likely bring.

I would have killed my MA pledge it AvP had of been what I considered to be a good offering. As it was, I saw the comparative value and thought "there's no way this is going to come anywhere close to Mars Attacks" which just strengthened my Mars Attacks pledge.

That's why at the time, I said "What if Mantic had the license". Restic isn't a perfect material, but their new Deadzone stuff looks really good, and imo, a lot of restic Aliens, Marines and Predators from Mantic - with the Deadzone ruleset - would have been a much better alternative to either Mars Attacks or Produs-run resin AvP half boardgame half tabletop wargame.

I'm not a Mantic fanboi - I only have their Dreadball stuff currently, which admittedly I really like. But I really do think they could have done this license (which I much prefer to Mars Attacks) a lot better than Prodos seems to be doing.

 Yonan wrote:
Restic isn't a perfect material

Goodness, you can say that again. I am soooooooooooo glad that a resin company got the license. If it does well, maybe we'll see "real" polystyrene plastic models one day. But I have no desire to deal with restic ever again, or at least any more than I have to.

People pay insane prices for FW for the IP, but also because the detail is insane (when you get a good cast, which Prodos seem to be good at). These models in resin will be worth the price, to me... and obviously to 1200 or so others as well, so far

RiTide, I too am looking forward to see what the Queen brings as far as pledges.

One thing is certain, without early bird deals it's easier to let your pledge go on this one.

Manchu wrote:
RiTide, I too am looking forward to see what the Queen brings as far as pledges.

One thing is certain, without early bird deals it's easier to let your pledge go on this one.

Or simply not pledge at all until you feel it's where you want. I would have committed initially had they offered something as simple as free shipping for early bird pledges of 75 GBP or more. Human psychology is a wonderful if fickle thing.

 RiTides wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
Restic isn't a perfect material

Goodness, you can say that again. I am soooooooooooo glad that a resin company got the license. If it does well, maybe we'll see "real" polystyrene plastic models one day. But I have no desire to deal with restic ever again, or at least any more than I have to.

People pay insane prices for FW for the IP, but also because the detail is insane (when you get a good cast, which Prodos seem to be good at). These models in resin will be worth the price, to me... and obviously to 1200 or so others as well, so far

Oh definitely, people prefer different things no doubt about it. I'm just stating my preferences. If you want to run numbers however, 2300 seemed to like MA (not restic) and 4300 liked Restic/Hard Plastic with Deadzone, admittedly a far weaker license than AvP. Liking the sculpts of these for example is very much subjective, but the casts are really good imo and have great detail that would work well for AvP, the new restic formula has a lot going for it. And if it results in 1/4 the price, I'll happily trade a 5% quality reduction for what would amount to getting 10x the minis, since I'd go in hard again ; p

Plus the whole Deadzone rule set and all the extra stuff you get with Mantic KS, optional acrylic counters, collectors rulebooks, etc. A new set of hard plastic terrain sprues, compatible with Deadzone ones but acid burned, perhaps with the secreted resin stuff from the alien infestation stuff... all cheaper and more modular than big resin sections.

Not trying to step on toes or insult Prodos - this is just friendly discussion, just making sure that we're clear on that. What Prodos is doing is viable, and the sculpts look good.