Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game, Prodos loses license to AvP. p.266

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**Alpharius**

Well, 'removed from Kickstarter' doesn't necessarily mean any additional delays.

FOX's legal team can deal with...whatever, and PRODOS can keep on keeping on.

It is hard to believe that FOX will lose in any legal dispute.

**CptJake**

Ktulhut wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
I am so getting a refund if this goes tits up

Presumably, everyone gets a refund if it goes south.

Yeah right.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pacific wrote:
Think it's possible that there is some jumping to conclusions going on here? I don't think we are going to have much more than a minor delay (on top of an already delayed arrival) to be honest.

The game has the backing of the actual owners of the Aliens Vs. Predator Franchise, which is Fox, and if dozens of updates and other info are to be believed Prodos have been in continuous contact with Fox throughout the entirety of this project. We've read, for example, that the Predalien went through about half a dozen resculpts before a compromise was reached between both parties on the design.

So, I think it is fair to assume that Fox haven't suddenly pulled the plug this far in. However, I have read that it's rather easy to get stuff like this happening on KS - i.e. if there is even the slightest whisper of an issue, KS will remove the item from view until the dispute is resolved.

I think it is much more likely that, as has been suggested above, this relates to a minor component of the game (such as the video game characters - although I can't imagine Capcom causing a stink?).

That sales guy for Prodos needs to earn his money though and get an update out pronto, even if he doesn't have full knowledge of every detail there need to be some assurances made here.

Seems funny to chastise folks about jumping to conclusions, and then present your scenario, in other words jump to a conclusion yourself.

**Ktulhut**

Oh CptJake, where would we be without your doomsaying?

**CptJake**

KS isn't going to refund you.

Unless you recently bought a pledge from the webstore, you're charge is way over the 6 month old where your credit card company can do anything.

Those are pretty certain. Perhaps Prodos on their own initiative comes up with the cash to refund everyone. I wouldn't count on it since they are going to be able to show they spent the money they collected in a good faith effort to produce the game.

Call that doomsaying, but folks successfully getting a refund when a KS project goes tango uniform is the exception, not the norm. The further from project funding period you go, the harder it is.

Best bet, and hopefully what happens, is the issue is resolved and Prodos delivers. Refunds just are not likely.

**Alpharius**

Unfortunately, the good Captain speaks the truth.

Better to hope for a successful fulfillment rather than a refund after a collapse!

**Nostromodamus**

As I didn't go through KS, but rather through Paypal, I'm hoping I'm on better footing for a refund.

**CptJake**

Alex C wrote:
As I didn't go through KS, but rather through Paypal, I'm hoping I'm on better footing for a refund.

PayPal recently extended their protest/refund period. I'm not sure if you paid before that went into effect or not, or if it may be retroactive for a certain period. If' you're remotely interested in a refund you may want to check, and figure out when your last 'Ask for a refund or it is too late' day is to see how long you want to allow for this to shake out.

**warboss**

Alex C wrote:
As I didn't go through KS, but rather through Paypal, I'm hoping I'm on better footing for a refund.

That depends on when you did it. They recently changed their terms from 45 days to 6 months to get a refund.

**angelofvengeance**

Message from Prodos this morning:

Hello everyone. Sorry to cause panic. We (Prodos Games) have made a clerical error when cleaning up our Kickstarter maintenance page. If you go to up you will see that there are two un-started projects. We were hoping to get them deleted (just to tidy up our work space), but didn't convey our request clearly. As such the AvP website has been temporarily closed in error. We are working to get it back up. Hopefully it will return in all its glory within 24 hours. Sorry to panic everyone. (Just goes to show a tidy workspace isn't always the best thing)!

**H.B.M.C.**

angelofvengeance wrote:
Message from Prodos this morning:

Hello everyone. Sorry to cause panic. We (Prodos Games) have made a clerical error when cleaning up our Kickstarter maintenance page. If you go to up you will see that there are two un-started projects. We were hoping to get them deleted (just to tidy up our work space), but didn't convey our request clearly. As such the AvP website has been temporarily closed in error. We are working to get it back up. Hopefully it will return in all its glory within 24 hours. Sorry to panic everyone. (Just goes to show a tidy workspace isn't always the best thing)!

Or, to put it a slightly different way:

**Pacific**

It amazes me how often you get to use that HBMC

CptJake wrote:
Ktulhut wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
I am so getting a refund if this goes tits up

Presumably, everyone gets a refund if it goes south.

Yeah right.
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pacific wrote:
Think it's possible that there is some jumping to conclusions going on here? I don't think we are going to have much more than a minor delay (on top of an already delayed arrival) to be honest.

The game has the backing of the actual owners of the Aliens Vs. Predator Franchise, which is Fox, and if dozens of updates and other info are to be believed Prodos have been in continuous contact with Fox throughout the entirety of this project. We've read, for example, that the Predalien went through about half a dozen resculpts before a compromise was reached between both parties on the design.

So, I think it is fair to assume that Fox haven't suddenly pulled the plug this far in. However, I have read that it's rather easy to get stuff like this happening on KS - i.e. if there is even the slightest whisper of an issue, KS will remove the item from view until the dispute is resolved.

I think it is much more likely that, as has been suggested above, this relates to a minor component of the game (such as the video game characters - although I can't imagine Capcom causing a stink?).

That sales guy for Prodos needs to earn his money though and get an update out pronto, even if he doesn't have full knowledge of every detail there need to be some assurances made here.

Seems funny to chastise folks about jumping to conclusions, and then present your scenario, in other words jump to a conclusion yourself.

I hoped I was presenting a reasoned explanation for what might come of it. Rather than what seemed to be happening, which was someone noticing that they had a spot on their hand and then running around in a circle screaming because they were sure that they were developing the bubonic plague

This does seem a bit odd though - while organising their Kickstarters, someone accidentally hit the 'Mark this KS as subject of IP dispute button'?

Sad to hear that this seems to be the straw that has broken the camel's back now though with refunds being requested, I think we were almost there..

**angelofvengeance**

Disgruntled employee maybe?

**ORicK**

I never was worried, i saw the models and the game in Antwerp last month and spoke to the developers, this game is SOOOooo definately coming...

I love AvP since the first comics in the late 80's/90's (and have the originals) and above all I love Predators.
And the Prodos ones are exactly what they should be, especially in size (in relation to humans).
Bigger than Space Marines, but more detail and realistic build.
The aliens and humans are great too off course...

And i have not read all of the pages of this topic, but they spoke of this game as the start, which will be quickly followed by a skirmish level game and it might grow to a bigger level wargame later on.
They have all AvP licences, so can make anything ever written or seen in movies.

I am one happy camper...

**Bolognesus**

Pacific wrote:
It amazes me how often you get to use that HBMC

CptJake wrote:
Ktulhut wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
I am so getting a refund if this goes tits up

Presumably, everyone gets a refund if it goes south.

Yeah right.
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pacific wrote:
Think it's possible that there is some jumping to conclusions going on here? I don't think we are going to have much more than a minor delay (on top of an already delayed arrival) to be honest.

The game has the backing of the actual owners of the Aliens Vs. Predator Franchise, which is Fox, and if dozens of updates and other info are to be believed Prodos have been in continuous contact with Fox throughout the entirety of this project. We've read, for example, that the Predalien went through about half a dozen resculpts before a compromise was reached between both parties on the design.

So, I think it is fair to assume that Fox haven't suddenly pulled the plug this far in. However, I have read that it's rather easy to get stuff like this happening on KS - i.e. if there is even the slightest whisper of an issue, KS will remove the item from view until the dispute is resolved.

I think it is much more likely that, as has been suggested above, this relates to a minor component of the game (such as the video game characters - although I can't imagine Capcom causing a stink?).

That sales guy for Prodos needs to earn his money though and get an update out pronto, even if he doesn't have full knowledge of every detail there need to be some assurances made here.

Seems funny to chastise folks about jumping to conclusions, and then present your scenario, in other words jump to a conclusion yourself.

I hoped I was presenting a reasoned explanation for what might come of it. Rather than what seemed to be happening, which was someone noticing that they had a spot on their hand and then running around in a circle screaming because they were sure that they were developing the bubonic plague

This does seem a bit odd though - while organising their Kickstarters, someone accidentally hit the 'Mark this KS as subject of IP dispute button'?

Sad to hear that this seems to be the straw that has broken the camel's back now though with refunds being requested, I think we were almost there..

Actually, since they mention wanting two unstarted programs to no longer be visible in their profile, it makes some sense; there's a good chance KS simply doesn't have another support/complaint code to quickly do that without fuss and they figured projects that never started have no backers anyway, so the net result would work out.
Of course, it rather escalates what should be a minor issue I'd you also include the wrong project

Just guessing, but knowing the inflexibility of this sort of system on the support interface side of things, usually, it'd make sense for this to be the case.

**Talking Banana**

angelofvengeance wrote:
Message from Prodos this morning:

Hello everyone. Sorry to cause panic. We (Prodos Games) have made a clerical error when cleaning up our Kickstarter maintenance page. If you go to up you will see that there are two un-started projects. We were hoping to get them deleted (just to tidy up our work space), but didn't convey our request clearly. As such the AvP website has been temporarily closed in error. We are working to get it back up. Hopefully it will return in all its glory within 24 hours. Sorry to panic everyone. (Just goes to show a tidy workspace isn't always the best thing)!

I'm relieved to hear this, and somewhat amused by the whole thing now, but man. That was one whopper of a clerical blunder.

My heart goes out to fans of the canceled projects. I know the prospect of a My Little Pony vs. Aliens vs. Predator KS was generating a lot of excitement here.

**Ktulhut**

I hope those of you who over-reacted without hearing anything from Prodos feel rightfully silly about now.

**Ruglud**

Hahahahahaha, well that was a fun 5 minutes. Didn't get to check emails or Dakka since Tuesday, so when I went to my Inbox just now I was laughing like a crazy person on the first message from Kickstarter - then went to crying like another crazy person on PRODOS' all clear... Phew...

**CptJake**

KS needs to fix their system. If a screw up while cleaning up generates an IP issue email from KS, that is just wrong. There are many better messages KS could send out, even a simple "The project has been removed from public view at the request of the project creator." It would still lead to speculation but not automatically throw in IP issues as the reason.

Having said that, since it was Prodos who made the mistake, surely it should not take them very long to get KS to reinstate the project since there is no IP issue...

**Nostromodamus**

Well hopefully that's all that happened and the game is still on the way.

Still would like my refund, but I may be out of luck on that front. This isn't the only thing that has bothered me about fulfillment and Prodos' operations.

**Warzone Resurrection**

OK, to clear it up,

the KS page will be up soon, new ticket is created, the page was removed by mistake, bad working in email sent to KS "we ask to hide the other pages..." ended up with this mess.

we meant to remove the ones bonded to this the AvP KS, un-starterd ones:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/10679854_10204523700908408_2394910395365793693_o.jpg

and the mail from KS .... :

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t31.0-8/1465861_10204523826631551_8720015458683897209_o.jpg

:Official statement from Prodos:

"Hello everyone. Sorry to cause panic. We (Prodos Games) have made a clerical error when cleaning up our Kickstarter maintenance page. If you go to up you will see that there are two un-started projects. We were hoping to get them deleted (just to tidy up our work space), but didn't convey our request clearly. As such the AvP website has been temporarily closed in error. We are working to get it back up. Hopefully it will return in all its glory within 24 hours. Sorry to panic everyone. (Just goes to show a tidy workspace isn't always the best thing)!"

**angelofvengeance**

Cheers for the clarification

**RiTides**

Thanks for coming to post here, Prodos, to clear things up! Oh Kickstarter

**MattRendar**

Just got this email

**Pacific**

Alex C wrote:
Well hopefully that's all that happened and the game is still on the way.

Still would like my refund, but I may be out of luck on that front. This isn't the only thing that has bothered me about fulfillment and Prodos' operations.

I think what might seem unlucky for you now might actually turn out to be lucky for you

Honestly, if you're a big fan of the IP (guessing you are with that avatar!) then you surely have to agree that some of these miniatures look absolutely fething awesome. Speaking personally, I can't tell you how long I've been waiting for some good predator/alien/marine miniatures. I guess since I first saw some of the earlier movies, more than 20 years ago.

My biggest reservation at present is the game mechanics and whether the game will be fun/worthwhile to play. Although, even if they are terrible I will still be happy with my investment just to get the minis (although YMMV over this point, depending on how big a fan you are of the franchise/how happy just to collect minis etc.)

**Nostromodamus**

At this stage I'm happy either way

If I get a refund? Cool. No more stressing over this KS and I get to pay off some of the other KS I backed.

If I get minis, sweet, get some really nice AvP models and hopefully the game is good too.

And yes, MASSIVE Alien fan here

**RiTides**

I think your avatar gives that away a bit, Alex

**Pacific**

I suppose at least you will have the luxury of getting at retail at a later date Alex.

Have changed my avatar also for the time being to celebrate the coming of this game, Tim Curry will have to wait until the game has been released (whenever that may be!)

**Ruglud**

Disturbing Avatar Mr Pacific - I still shudder somewhat when I watch the facehugger scenes with Mr Hurt...

**CptJake**

Prodos KS Email message wrote:Prodos Games Ltd says:
As you may be aware we have removed the ‘Alien vs Predator Board Game’ Kickstarter page.
We recognise that the closed site holding page says that there is an IP issue with this project. Unfortunately Kickstarter do not allow any other default page.
Please be assured though that the Game is still in development (we are in the latter stages of licensor approvals) and we will continue to keep you updated.
These updates will continue via the Kickstarter email list and via our website newsletter. You can also join our official forum at forum.prodosgames.com and follow us on Facebook (www.facebook.com/prodosgamesltd) or Twitter (@ProdosGames).
The pledge manager will remain open until shortly after the final products are shown, therefore allowing you to continue to adjust the products you have selected. You will receive due notice of closure of the Pledge Manager one week before it closes via the newsletter and your KS email.
Keep an eye on your email for updates.
If you have any queries or questions, please don’t hesitate to contact Prodos Games customer services manager at agata.mazurek@prodos.co.uk.
Thank you again for your support
Prodos Games LTD.

**Grumpae**

So I got the message above which sounded rather ominous and led me to believe they would not be bringing the page back. I then asked them if they would be restoring the page, and recieved this response:

Prodos Games Ltd
Prodos Games Ltd
Nov 27, 2014
Report Spam
We are trying, however some backer comments/info must be edited. We will keep you guys updated. Sorry for inconvenience. You are more than welcome to join our Forum page, were we have a bit more control over the written content. Thanks.

So... I think there was no accident. I now believe that Fox made them take down the page due to negative comments directed at them.

Thoughts?