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2015/08/07 22:30:51
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
Prodos is quite active in their FB page for the game. To claim they aren't is an outright falsehood.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just sent my email, complete with photographs, to UK Citizens Advise to let them know how pleased I am with my copy of AvP from Prodos games and how receptive to feedback their in person employees were at GenCon in Indianapolis.
I also sent screenshots of the many interactions Prodos has had with customers on Facebook to provide example of their good faith effort to deliver to backers and provide response to the (often vile) feedback they receive.
As a concerned backer, of course.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/07 23:44:33
2015/08/08 06:55:10
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
@cincydooly,
IMHO that would just be supporting Big Jim's claim seeing that you had to collect it yourself at a con. How is any UK backer reasonably expected to collect from GenCon? I paid to have it shipped to me, I shouldn't have to chase after the few copies going at cons. Also, whilst Prodos is active on FB (and twitter) there are plenty of unanswered posts and frustrated backers. I don't understand the lack of presence on their own forum (a mix of frustrated backers and fanbois).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/08 06:58:40
2015/08/08 09:32:38
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
cincydooley wrote: Prodos is quite active in their FB page for the game. To claim they aren't is an outright falsehood.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just sent my email, complete with photographs, to UK Citizens Advise to let them know how pleased I am with my copy of AvP from Prodos games and how receptive to feedback their in person employees were at GenCon in Indianapolis.
I also sent screenshots of the many interactions Prodos has had with customers on Facebook to provide example of their good faith effort to deliver to backers and provide response to the (often vile) feedback they receive.
As a concerned backer, of course.
Fair point, yes they have been active on Facebook, I'm just struggling to see anything relating to them actually updating backers, which is the key point. I'm very glad that they have a new moulding system, but that isn't related to sending out copies of AvP.
I'm very glad you have your copy and that the guys on the Ninja Division stand and the cardboard cut out Prodos member of staff were very receptive.
However, for me I see a lack of direct communication with backers, I'm unable to contact Prodos as their UK phone line doesn't work, they are not responding to polite and civil e-mails and they are not responding to either polite or hostile messages on their Facebook page.
Trading standards will work on a case by case basis and I'm sure some people are happy, however, in my case I have concerns. Likewise I supplied the website links, screenshots, Kickstarter updates etc to show the lack of information In my case.
2015/08/08 11:19:31
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
It's gotten very slippery in here ... oh, blind fanboy, I get it.
OK, so it's been a week since I reported the misshap with my cards. I was told "we will send ASAP" - OK, sounds good at first. But of course, ASAP in Prodos' terms means entirely different things than in those of normal people. I have not gotten the replacement by now and when I asked a week ago, what timetable ASAP follows, guess what, no answer up to today. Sorry, mr blind happy selfcollecting and in your opinion Prodos is god and can do no wrong, there is no such thing as good communcation by Prodos. It's a rare thing, like unicorns, Leprechauns, angels and such. It must've been a glitch, I received that first mail in the first place. Yeah, I know, made the numbes of 190 mails per day myself. Ah well, I have a second game with complete cards, so I'm at least able to play.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/08 11:21:08
2015/08/08 13:50:02
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
Hardly a blind fanboy. Hardly a fanboy at all, in fact.
I think the bitching and moaning has reached a fever pitch and I think it's sad and pathetic, especially since much of it is predicated on blatant mistruths.
"Prodos hasn't been communicative with customers." Lie. Yes they have. They're regularly posting on the FB group.
"But it doesn't have anything to do with fulfillment". Lie. On Aug 7 they made a post that details when wave 1 will be shipping to NA backers, as well as the status of shipping for Euro backers as well as information on wave 2.
"Prodos isn't trying to get anyone that backed the KS product." Lie. As a single concrete example, they air shipped 100 copies to gencon for backers to pick up.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/08 13:54:29
2015/08/08 14:05:25
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
Jim Prodosgames
21 hrs · Edited
This is Rumor Control and these are the Facts for Friday August 7, 2015
We are back from a very successful trip to Gencon with our US partners at Ninja Division; I handed out almost 100 AvP boxes to happy backers and had a bunch of great conversations with them about AvP as well. It was awesome meeting everyone who could come to Gencon to pick up their AvP boxes.
Also for anyone that picked up their AvP boxes at Gencon please note you will receive a shipping email as we add you to the system for receiving your boxes. This is just how the system works.
Ninja Division will proceed with shipping to North and South American backers next week.
We are still shipping to backers in the rest of the world, however things are slow going. This is due to packaging changes being make to the core box due to damages caused during shipping. The cards will now be located in the brown interior box with the miniatures. Shipping is also slow because we have half our staff on scheduled vacations. We are legally bound to give them their vacations that were schedules and approved at the beginning of the year.
Wave 2 approval is still pending due to a slight redesign of the packaging that needs to be done, more news when we have it.
More and more we see people asking about seeing the final models for Wave 2, we will show them as soon as the packaging is approved.
Cheers,
Prodos Games LTD
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/08 14:21:50
There was also this KS update sent out on July 25th:
Spoiler:
This is Rumour Control, Here are the Facts...
1. Do we have an estimated date when Wave 1 will be completed?
Yep, end of August. We hope sooner than that, of course. By shipping stock to Ninja Division in one bulk, we've managed to reduce the number of parcels to be shipped quite significantly!
2. UK partner?
We still have to confirm this, but it is looking like we will not. This will not necessarily speed things up. It will take us a week to manufacture all the stock, then 4-5 days to get it to the warehouse, then 4-5 days for them to ship. We would think that in 3 weeks time (working days) we could achieve the same ourselves. The UK and EIRE was our largest zone for Backers at roughly 40% of the Kickstarter being the UK and EIRE alone.
3. How many backers have been shipped?
We do not know exact figures, but including the shipment to America, roughly 600.
4. When do the second batch of Wave 2 items go to Fox for approval?
This should occur on Monday or Tuesday of the coming week.
5. What steps have been made to increase output?
We are still sourcing a printer that can print in quality and in high volume. We are also looking at additional assembly companies to work with actually putting the game together and shrinkwrapping it.
We have increased manufacturing capacity by up to 40% this week. A huge step was made last night, with some equipment that arrived. 2 of our directors actually worked from 2PM until 10AM this morning installing equipment and testing the production line. This is good news for AvP, for Warzone and for all of our clients. We are running with the intention of creating at least 150 copies of AvP a day, with possibly more.
6. Are we shipping to Australia?
Yes, there are 149 backers in Australia. We are shipping to them whenever they come up in our stack of orders.
7. Are we leaving (x) until last so that we can ship Wave 1 and Wave 2 together to save money?
No. At least, not intentionally. Sure, we are a business and we would like to save money; but that is not our key driver. We made a statement a few weeks ago, saying that if we could ship Wave 1 and Wave 2 together, we would. That still applies, but we are not holding back the shipment, or purposely delaying it to do that. The fundamental point there is that we need to ship the Kickstarter Wave 1 to make sales of the Boxed Set.
8. Are we going out of business, hence the slow production rate?
Not at all. We have invested in too many staff and too much equipment recently for that to be the case. Sure, we are cutting it fine, but only so that we can get the Kickstarter shipped out as fast as possible. Please understand that the stage we are at is usually referred to as the 'stocking up' period. Most companies would do this behind closed doors, build up a huge stock-holding and then ship it all out at once. That is the case, I am sure, for any of the other licensed games that have been released recently. We are aware that we made a mistake trying to ship it all piecemeal and we are now trying to rectify that with the decision to ship the USA products with Ninja Division and to sign them up as our North American publisher.
Hind-sight is 20:20, as they say.
If you do spot somewhere that this kind of rumour is being spread, we would be very interested in where the source is. Please advise us to where you heard this. We are keen to deal with the source of that particular rumour.
9. Why didn't you answer my question?
Apologies, that's not intentional, we must have missed it. Please can you list it below and we will do our best to answer as soon as we can. Please also be aware that some questions are more appropriate for private email. If you have a customer complaint/query, please email sales@prodosgames.com, where he will forward you to the right place.
10. Why will you not give refunds?
Simply put, the money pledged on Kickstarter is used by us as an investment. We have enough capital to ship your copies and continue the production of the game. We have spoken to Kickstarter and our right to refuse a refund is equal to the right to request one. The fact we have begun shipping and that we are sharing these updates is enough to prove we have every intention to provide every backer with the products we promised (with reasonable, aesthetic changes).
11. The Kickstarter is still down, will it ever go back up?
We're aware of that and yes, we hope for the Kickstarter to go back up eventually. We would imagine that, at the earliest, this will be when the project is completed and all items are approved. We are in discussion with Fox regarding it, as it would open the doors again and get rid of the nasty suggestion of 'IP Dispute' that is factually incorrect.
12. Will Prodos Games be holding another open day soon?
Yes, we are intending to run an Open Day in Leamington Spa soon. We will be communicating with Crusaders about their assistance with this and would invite all fans of Prodos Games to attend. This may or may not be in our offices. We will see!
Gen Con is next week, don’t forget we will be in booth 1943 with our US partner Ninja Division. We will be handing out AvP boxes to North American backers that come to the booth. Please bring a printout copy of your pledge manager with you to speed up the process.
Shipping to all non-North and South American backers continues from our Poland facility.
We are awaiting word back from Fox on the physical approval of the Wave 2 packaged products.
Thanks again all and please accept my apologies for the delay in getting this communication to you.
Jim Prodosgames
21 hrs · Edited
This is Rumor Control and these are the Facts for Friday August 7, 2015
We are back from a very successful trip to Gencon with our US partners at Ninja Division; I handed out almost 100 AvP boxes to happy backers and had a bunch of great conversations with them about AvP as well. It was awesome meeting everyone who could come to Gencon to pick up their AvP boxes.
Also for anyone that picked up their AvP boxes at Gencon please note you will receive a shipping email as we add you to the system for receiving your boxes. This is just how the system works.
Ninja Division will proceed with shipping to North and South American backers next week.
We are still shipping to backers in the rest of the world, however things are slow going. This is due to packaging changes being make to the core box due to damages caused during shipping. The cards will now be located in the brown interior box with the miniatures. Shipping is also slow because we have half our staff on scheduled vacations. We are legally bound to give them their vacations that were schedules and approved at the beginning of the year.
Wave 2 approval is still pending due to a slight redesign of the packaging that needs to be done, more news when we have it.
More and more we see people asking about seeing the final models for Wave 2, we will show them as soon as the packaging is approved.
Cheers,
Prodos Games LTD
That's really helpful, can I ask which Facebook page it is one please? I haven't seen it on the Prodos Games or the open AvP one. Do I presume it's the closed AvP Facebook page?
I would have been helpful if it had actually gone to backers.
2015/08/08 14:49:27
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
cincydooley wrote: Hardly a blind fanboy. Hardly a fanboy at all, in fact.
I think the bitching and moaning has reached a fever pitch and I think it's sad and pathetic, especially since much of it is predicated on blatant mistruths.
Just pointing out I'm not a fanboy... but I do like to play devils advocate a lot. ^_^
PomWallaby wrote: How is any UK backer reasonably expected to collect from GenCon? I paid to have it shipped to me, I shouldn't have to chase after the few copies going at cons. Also, whilst Prodos is active on FB (and twitter) there are plenty of unanswered posts and frustrated backers.
To be fair UK backers had access to AvP at Cons before US backers. Although I do understand that you feel you shouldn't have to go pick them up, that however is a choice. It was available sooner and the choice was to wait for it delivered. Granted if you weren't going to any of those cons the given choice is to wait. There will always be frustrated backers unfortunately. I do find it amusing when I compare things like AvP to Kingdom Death though, always interesting to see how fan bases are different. As for the questions, many questions have been answered it is just that people don't like the answers.
Big Jim wrote: However, for me I see a lack of direct communication with backers, I'm unable to contact Prodos as their UK phone line doesn't work, they are not responding to polite and civil e-mails and they are not responding to either polite or hostile messages on their Facebook page.
What email are you using, many people have been using the wrong email honestly. In fact even I initially used the wrong email when emailing to pick up AvP at GenCon. Other than that I've had no issues at other emails with them, although responses are about 1-2 weeks out. It probably depends on what is considered a polite and civil email, just because an email is polite and civil but contains information about taking them court or saying they are misleading, doesn't mean someone would probably respond. I'm not saying your emails said that, it was just an example that one perons polite and civil doesn't necessarily match up to another person's perception.
2015/08/08 15:20:52
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
Hardly a blind fanboy. Hardly a fanboy at all, in fact.
I call what I see.
I think the bitching and moaning has reached a fever pitch and I think it's sad and pathetic, especially since much of it is predicated on blatant mistruths.
I rest my case.
"Prodos hasn't been communicative with customers." Lie. Yes they have. They're regularly posting on the FB group.
Dude, kid, fanboy ... if I am forced to join a social media thing I give a rat's ass about and then join a closed wannabe elite club when there is a way for them to communicate ... then they may not be silent, they just decide, they don't want to share the info with us frakking backers - i.e. not communicating. You can whine and bitch and be as pathetic all you want, that is a cold hard fact.
"But it doesn't have anything to do with fulfillment". Lie. On Aug 7 they made a post that details when wave 1 will be shipping to NA backers, as well as the status of shipping for Euro backers as well as information on wave 2.
And when ever was a time given by Prodos any good? Wait, when was it planned? Oh, yeah, somewhere 2014. True, not everything is solely their fault, but I see a glint of fanboyance with you.
"Prodos isn't trying to get anyone that backed the KS product." Lie. As a single concrete example, they air shipped 100 copies to gencon for backers to pick up.
So you expect everybody to fly to the US, pay addmitance, fly back home, maybe hotel inbetween not to mention food to get their game? Ah, the life of a partially blind fanboy, it must be grand.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/08 15:23:56
2015/08/08 15:21:04
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
Odd, I get spam from FB not even being there (yeah, I know, just because it says FB doesn't mean, it actually is) but absolutely none from Dakka.
Mhmhmh, odd odd odd ...
2015/08/08 15:39:28
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
OK, another Saturdsay, another build report. This time: The Infants. Detailwise they are, as often mentioned, great. Somehow this resin is pretty rubbery - great if you bend it a litle, doesn't snap right off but a pain in the butt when trying to fixate it to shave off excess. I'm taking that back. Partly partly. Some minis are softer than others, guess it depends on the exact mixture. Excess is mostly found on the tails, but managleable. Again I have to shave the pegs to fit their corresponding holes. Gotta be really careful about it. Taking off the mold injections on the feet can be a bit tricky but doable, though you might find some acesss between the toes. Worst idea designwise are the injection parts right in the palms. Not wanting to break up the design is a fine choise, but getting those out without slicing a claw off is a real bummer - one of mine has lost a claw, it went flying and now I'll have to rebuild a claw with greenstuff. Will be fiddely, but it can be done.
As with the marines, your typical boardgame nerd may have a hard time but will manage. For the casual gamer just another part he/she will give up on it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/08 17:49:08
2015/08/08 18:10:35
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
Moses Bad wrote: As with the marines, your typical boardgame nerd may have a hard time but will manage. For the casual gamer just another part he/she will give up on it.
In my experience "typical boardgame nerds" are pretty much the same as "casual gamers". The fact that the majority of boardgames require little to no assembly allows them to play at their leisure without investing too much time and effort.
Most "boardgame nerds" will pass on this game because it is obviously not a true boardgame, it is a simplified miniatures game being marketed as a boardgame, either to fulfill some sort of contractual obligation or to mislead consumers into thinking it is something it is not.
2015/08/08 18:25:05
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
Moses Bad wrote: Aw, c'mon.
What are true boardgames then? Only three come to mind and none have nice miniatures, only pretty simple pawns - Ludo, Chess and Checkers.
Better question would be "How many people consider AvP to be a board game."
I know I don't.
If I have to buy tools and adhesive to properly assemble the components of a game, I consider that game to be more of a hobby game (wargame or miniatures game) and not a board game.
2015/08/08 19:59:08
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
Well, I say, it has a board, it's a board game, no matter how complicated to set up. Remember Mouse Trap and other games in it's keel? Board games. And the rules can be as illogical as the bible, still a board game. Only difference, the people it appeals to and the what I call casual gamer will not be. Too complicated rules, too much fiddely diddely. Whereas a lot of people don't care for the rules or the board, they just wanted minis to use for own purposes.
Result, it's a poor board game when it gets to playability (and this includes what I've heard of the rules and what I know myself of the fiddely diddely of the minis), but it's a board game.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/08 20:00:35
Legion: Dark Angels 
