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 cincydooley wrote:
So the onus is on Prodos to ensure backers lock their PMs? Am I understanding you correctly?

Well, you tell me.
After campaign, PM goes out - I lock it.
Some time into the lies, they reopen just in case I want to throw more money at them - I lock it.
Even more time into the decit they reopen it, in case I want to throw money at them now or, again, more - I lock it.
For wave two, Prodos by now known as Barons of Munichhausen, reopen the PM, because maybe I've been lobotomized in the last two years (this is sort of a look into the future) and want to add more stuff - I have to lock it yet again.

Well, of course I know, Prodos can do no wrong in your eyes, all hail Prodos, frak us stupid backers to want what we paid for over a year ago whereas every Joe can go to their online shop and get it faster than the majority of sayd runts (i.e. backers).

 BrookM wrote:
If they keep reopening it without telling the backers, then yes.

That's the neat little trick.
They did tell, what they didn't tell is, you have to close it again and again, instead of them closing it down after timeframe X.
The burden of course is on us to ensure, Prodos is delivering what we paid for, you should know that and thank them on your knees!

yeah,
There is no excuse for the fact that this game is in my local FLGs heavily discounted.
I spent over £200 during the KS and have nothing.

I just want my stuff now, Prodos have fethed me hard.
I won't let them do it again.

I also plan to mock them in any Prodos threads that open up in the Future.
Plus warn people off projects with any hint of Prodos involvement.

Panic...

They also have failed to deliver all the sculpts that Micro Art Studios contracted them to do for Wolsung, so now I'm stuck waiting for fulfillment of 2 KS' due to their lack of professionalism.

They were scheduled to deliver the final pieces last week, after "forgetting" (as MAS put it) to do the work in the first place, but MAS just sent out an update saying they're still waiting for product...

I've tried to be nice, but it's hard to conceive of Prodos as anything except dishonest and/or incompetent at this stage.

You have to understand, the legal need for holidays, the needed break after such a stressfull vacation.
They didn't even have time to tell me, when this ASAP they want to ship my replacement cards will be.
Maybe it should have read ASAPP - As soon as Prodos pleases.

A goody from their forums:

Look we totally understand that people are frustrated, but we will not tolerate cursing or calling us liars over and over again. We underestimated the approval process, but now have a handle on it and things are rolling forward.

Truth hurts, doesn't it? You know what's rolling as well, literally? Avalanches.

I am sorry our updates are not satisfactory for you. We are under legal obligation to give scheduled holidays to staff from the beginning of the year. We are still shipping, with the half staff we have in the warehouse.

Well, at least we know, they are poor at planning. Bet when they go to McDonalds, they need two hours to decide what to order. And are pissed, if the clerk takes longer than two minutes and want to yell at the manager.

As to being in shops that was a legal obligation with Fox in the contract. Any shipments still arriving are because the shop did not receive their full initial order when we shipped to them last month.

So you say, among a lot of other things - see? Didn't call them liars.

Ninja Division started shipping to US backers yesterday, and the staff back from holiday have been sending out boxes with renewed fervor.

A snail with fervor is still a snail.

Your rewards are coming just a little while longer.

Seems as if they ran out of "Soon".

Glad to hear Ninja Division started the shipping. Nice to have a company that knows what it's doing handling the product at last.

The snail regard was aimed at their returned vacation staff - can't say anything about Ninja Division's speed or lack of it.
Hopefully, they will get this done soon.

... oh no, I said soon ...

 Moses Bad wrote:
[

Well, of course I know, Prodos can do no wrong in your eyes, all hail Prodos, frak us stupid backers to want what we paid for over a year ago whereas every Joe can go to their online shop and get it faster than the majority of sayd runts (i.e. backers).

Your strawmen continue to make me laugh. Thank you for that.

I paid for my product at the same time as every other backer. I closed my Pledge Manager when I was done with it. It was quite easy.

 BrookM wrote:
If they keep reopening it without telling the backers, then yes.

I completely agree. They've not done this to my knowledge. To be fair, I don't pour over every update they provide (I don't have the time or inclination), but I do know they've told us it will be reopening for Wave 2 items.

They did tell, what they didn't tell is, you have to close it again and again, instead of them closing it down after timeframe X.

So you assumed it would just close again automatically? Sounds like a deficiency on your part. Do you also expect your pants to pull themselves back up after you take a gak?

I don't know if I should laugh about you, or pity you. For now, I take your ignorant blind rants with humour.
You just can't be helped, sad, but acceptable.
Whatever you say, dude, whatever you say ...

No, I take it if they say "We will reopen it until date X" they close it as automatically as they opened it.
Well, I guess they are just being malicious to us unreasonably wanting our stuff after months of lies backers.
I assumed, If I don't change anything, it is all right, but it wasn't. But hey, this just has to be our fault, never ever any fault on Prodos, right?
Hey, look, a Leprechaun ... aw, ain't he cute?

I think a sense of humor comes in VERY handy, almost at all times.

Having said that - RULE #1.

Debate the points, do NOT insult the user.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Moses Bad wrote:
[

Well, of course I know, Prodos can do no wrong in your eyes, all hail Prodos, frak us stupid backers to want what we paid for over a year ago whereas every Joe can go to their online shop and get it faster than the majority of sayd runts (i.e. backers).

Your strawmen continue to make me laugh. Thank you for that.

I paid for my product at the same time as every other backer. I closed my Pledge Manager when I was done with it. It was quite easy.

 BrookM wrote:
If they keep reopening it without telling the backers, then yes.

I completely agree. They've not done this to my knowledge. To be fair, I don't pour over every update they provide (I don't have the time or inclination), but I do know they've told us it will be reopening for Wave 2 items.

They did tell, what they didn't tell is, you have to close it again and again, instead of them closing it down after timeframe X.

So you assumed it would just close again automatically? Sounds like a deficiency on your part. Do you also expect your pants to pull themselves back up after you take a gak?

When is the last time you checked your pledge manager? I had recieved no notice of it being reopened, and yet there it was, open. I do take the time to read the updates, every line, because its all the official communication that I have from them. There was no warning that they would reopen it prior to wave two being ready to ship. So yes it is annoying, and no, the onus should not be on us to check and see if its been reopened without notice. I have no issues with pulling my pants up, but if someone pulls them down (without being asked), they can fully expect a bloody nose in return.

Which ignorant, blind rants are those? There haven't been any.

No, I take it if they say "We will reopen it until date X" they close it as automatically as they opened it.
Well, I guess they are just being malicious to us unreasonably wanting our stuff after months of lies backers.
I assumed, If I don't change anything, it is all right, but it wasn't. But hey, this just has to be our fault, never ever any fault on Prodos, right?
Hey, look, a Leprechaun ... aw, ain't he cute?

Were your reading comprehension better, you'd have read that I agree, if they open it without informing the backers, than that's poor form. Alas, you either struggle with said comprehension, or you just skipped over it. Either way, it's still there, in black and white.

As I've said multiple times in the thread, Prodos has plenty of fault with this project. From the poor projections on time frames regarding licensing approvals (more understandable) to their, at times, poor communication (less understandable), there have been clear problems with the project. But they've been pretty open about them, and are still working to get product to backers (again, of which I am one).

Without the KS page being reopened (I don't know if it can be; maybe you, as the enlightened individual you are, can learn us about that), they've chosen to use Facebook as their primary method of information dissemination. Simply because you can't be bothered to look at Facebook is on you, not them. It's not a perfect way to do it, but it's not as if they're non-communicative.

You seem to have fun calling me a "Prodos Apologist," and that's fine. I'm not. I own exactly zero of their other products, and most likely will not back another KS run by them. So, in effect, you're wrong. You clearly think you're right, and very clever, so I'll let you continue to think that. Enjoy.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grumpae wrote:


When is the last time you checked your pledge manager?

]

July 29th. It was open. Just like I left it. I closed it so I could pick my copy up at GenCon.

It's not simply a matter of "not bothering to look at Facebook" though, considering some of this information is being disclosed via a closed Facebook group that requires a Facebook account to access.

I have no interest in making a Facebook account for a variety of reasons. You would think they could just email all the backers seeing as they have everyone's email address, as that would eliminate going through a 3rd party service and guarantee every backer sees any relevant information that is provided.

 Alex C wrote:

I have no interest in making a Facebook account for a variety of reasons. You would think they could just email all the backers seeing as they have everyone's email address, as that would eliminate going through a 3rd party service and guarantee every backer sees any relevant information that is provided.

I agree it's an inelegant solution. I don't know why they can't go through email (no idea if they have a colated list of user emails, Etc), nor do I know if they're able to reopen the KS page (though I'm hoping Mr. Moses, in his infinite wisdom, can tell us!).

Ideally, we'd be getting these updates via KS. But we aren't.

Regardless, the major notion I've scoffed at here is that they're not making an effort to communicate with backers or deliver product. I posit they're Doing both, and can easily substatiate that claim.

Are they doing it as well as they could be? Nope. But to claim either of those things, as many people here have, is an outright falsehood.

They can still (and once in a while do) send ALL the KS backers email via the KS message system (which works even with the page shut down).

Their excuse for not using it/using more often to disseminate info? I'm not sure. I am sure I would like them to use it more often.

And as a late backer, I would prefer emails as I do not receive KS updates, but KS updates would at least be a step in the right direction.

 cincydooley wrote:

Were your reading comprehension better, you'd have read that I agree, if they open it without informing the backers, than that's poor form. Alas, you either struggle with said comprehension, or you just skipped over it. Either way, it's still there, in black and white.

As I've said multiple times in the thread, Prodos has plenty of fault with this project. From the poor projections on time frames regarding licensing approvals (more understandable) to their, at times, poor communication (less understandable), there have been clear problems with the project. But they've been pretty open about them, and are still working to get product to backers (again, of which I am one).

Without the KS page being reopened (I don't know if it can be; maybe you, as the enlightened individual you are, can learn us about that), they've chosen to use Facebook as their primary method of information dissemination. Simply because you can't be bothered to look at Facebook is on you, not them. It's not a perfect way to do it, but it's not as if they're non-communicative.

You seem to have fun calling me a "Prodos Apologist," and that's fine. I'm not. I own exactly zero of their other products, and most likely will not back another KS run by them. So, in effect, you're wrong. You clearly think you're right, and very clever, so I'll let you continue to think that. Enjoy

You complain about my comprehension? Uhm, yeah, right, you yourself.
Aber danke, sollen wir vielleicht in meiner Muttersprache weitermachen? Wieviel verstehst du dann davon, mh?
And for those, not speaking German (so nobody thinks I'm insulting anyone):
But thanks, shall we continue in my mothertongue? How much would you understand then, mh?
Again, just for you and your incredible comprehension skills: They said they open, they said no thing of us having to close again.
If you just skip it, well, doesn't change I wrote it.
Got it? Nice. So, now why do I label you as a fanboy?
If you haven't understood it by now, you never will, so please forgive if I don't keep trying.

Ah, sarcasm, the nicer form of insults. Say, is that all you've got?
As many people have told you before, there are some, them, me, others, that don't use FB - and since Prodos HAS the channel to mail backers, it's just ignorant of them, as it is of you, to ignore what has been repeatetly written to you.
But it surely isn't your fault, you just chose to ignore it, it's my job to tell you again and again and again. Oh, you surely think you're very clever and I let you continue to do that.
No, not fun, naked truth or differently put, the truth that is not yours and therefore doesn't exist for you.
Have a nice day.

got some of the micro art studios tech bases to mix in with my fenris ones

http://shop.microartstudio.com/tech-bases-round-25mm-5-p-1150.html

 Alpharius wrote:
I think a sense of humor comes in VERY handy, almost at all times.

Having said that - RULE #1.

Debate the points, do NOT insult the user.

BECAUSE I GUESS THE ABOVE WAS NOT CLEAR - THAT WAS NOT A SUGGESTION.

while it pains me to defend Prodos, I feel it should be pointed out that at absolutely NO POINT during the project have Prodos said they NEED your pledge manager closed before they can ship you wave 1 product. Quite the opposite, they've made it very clear a number of times that they would simply ship whatever wave 1 boxsets you've ordered anyway. The point of closing it was to ensure that if you'd upped your number of boxsets (or added a second pledge) that would definitely be saved and so you'd be shipped the wave 1 component for that. Not closing it, won't prevent them from sending your pledge as it stands anyway.

They've come up with a pile of excuses for being late, but pledges being open has never ever been one of them.

To get back on criticising them for a second, regarding communications - they have ALL of our emails in the pledge manager, so if they could be bothered to send an update to every single backer no matter what route taken, rather than hide occasional updates on a closed Facebook group, they could choose to mass mail every single one of us.

Oh and one last point - we know that despite them saying weeks ago that they wouldn't be taking more orders from third party retailers until KS backers were serviced, they have indeed been doing so. We had thought that those stores getting restocks had simply placed their orders before Prodos locked it down, but today a UK store admitted (on Facebook) that he was offered a restock by Prodos staff only yesterday. Personally I don't mind that Prodos are restocking stores - they clearly need to generate cashflow, but I do mind that they have lied about it to backers. That's a(nother) breach of trust.

To be absolutely fair, they sayd "4 to 6 weeks" - and right now we are past middle of week 4.

Wouldn't it be great (though inplausible) if they had shipped all backer boxes and are offering because of that?
Ah, one can dream, eh?

ah yes - you're right, though it was my impression (correct or not) that they were saying 4-6 weeks because that was the length of time they expected to take to deal with the backer pledges.

If there were just a few dregs of backers left, and they were getting to them quickly, it'd probably be palatable, but bar a small influx of a dozen or so backers reporting getting shipping notices this week, all the evidence suggests that a large number still have nothing.

Having shipped out is, again addmiting, all they can do on their part.
Now if only they'd manage to answer mails in a week or less.
Frankly, I can't say if I received a shipping notice but doubt it. As far as I can recall, I was told by Michael (Michal? Geez, not sure) they'd ship, as soon as they'd have my name and address - which in fact they did at the time he wrote that, but I gave it to them again.
Given, 1900+ confirmations take their time and since they are no logistics company it's doubtful, they invested in that sort of software. But it would come in dang handy on their part, because it would in the end sooth a lot of people knowing, their stuff is on it's way instead waiting and wondering.

biggusdoggus wrote:
while it pains me to defend Prodos, I feel it should be pointed out that at absolutely NO POINT during the project have Prodos said they NEED your pledge manager closed before they can ship you wave 1 product.

I beg to differ.

16 May

Prodos KS Message wrote:9. Pledge manager changes and address update. By Friday we'll have an update for you with instruction how to do changes in the PM, postal address update and locking the PM. PLEASE make sure that you have done final alternations to your pledge, including the updated postal address by 31st of May. IT will affect the shipping date if the pledge manager is not locked.

They implied it or stated it a couple of other times too.

yeah,
To be absolutely fair to Prodos, we need to remember they are selling copies via retailers all over the world!
Probably because they had a contract with fox... it's not Prodos fault this is happening.

To be absolutely fair to Prodos, we need to remember they are sending retailers their second shipments.
Again probably because Fox really hates Kickstarter... it's not Prodos fault this is happening.

To be absolutely fair to Prodos, we need to remember they are selling copies online now and shipping them out within 5 days.
Again probably because they had a contract with fox... I mean Fox probably held a gun to their head and said 'make money bitchs'
it's not Prodos fault this is happening.
I mean Prodos just used our cash to bank roll their project and now their making money selling it.. what have we got to complain about?
Nothing.
If there was something to complain about its Fox's fault.
Just wait...
It will be with you sometime soon. or never.
But you should all totally give them more money while you wait!!
That way they can make more Aliens and more Predators to send to retail shops.


Panic...

A couple of questions.

Has anyone had any dealings with Ninja Division before? How are they to deal with?

Are we getting tracking numbers on the shipments from them, or even a confirmation of shipment email?

Ninja Division is a great company in my experience. SDE fulfillment went pretty much smooth as silk and I've heard good things about the NAS project they did.

The only possible issue I can see with using Ninja Division is if you get hosed up product (I've seen folks report missing items for example). We don't know if Ninja Division will be able to address those types of issues or if we have to go through Prodos. I suspect the latter.

 CptJake wrote:

biggusdoggus wrote:
while it pains me to defend Prodos, I feel it should be pointed out that at absolutely NO POINT during the project have Prodos said they NEED your pledge manager closed before they can ship you wave 1 product.

I beg to differ.

16 May

Prodos KS Message wrote:9. Pledge manager changes and address update. By Friday we'll have an update for you with instruction how to do changes in the PM, postal address update and locking the PM. PLEASE make sure that you have done final alternations to your pledge, including the updated postal address by 31st of May. IT will affect the shipping date if the pledge manager is not locked.

They implied it or stated it a couple of other times too.

Then I'll humbly stand corrected.

They've definitely said a few times that it didn't matter if it got reopened though, they'd still be able to ship to you.

Ain't like they never contradicted themselves ...

 CptJake wrote:
The only possible issue I can see with using Ninja Division is if you get hosed up product (I've seen folks report missing items for example). We don't know if Ninja Division will be able to address those types of issues or if we have to go through Prodos. I suspect the latter.

My understanding is that Ninja took delivery of sealed boxsets - they have no spare parts to be able to deal with issues. Maybe they'll get permission to break open spare stock to deal with such .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Moses Bad wrote:
Ain't like they never contradicted themselves ...

Indeed - they did so in that very update in fact, since the instructions for address change never materialised.