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2015/08/14 09:16:33
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
Could someone who's on the closed AVP facebook group copy across today's "Friday update" if there is one. It would be great if those of us either not on facebook / not willing to join the group could read the update here. Backers seem to get the same message a couple of days later by email.
On a side note, I understand the legal need/use of the closed facebook group, (nothing negative shows up on a google search, there's a nice opportunity for bringing down the banhammer and heavy moderating)
I frequently check Prodos' own forum for updates, so if I spot an official update on there, I'll see if I can't copy it across if it hasn't already.
2015/08/14 14:07:21
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
Some good questions P1 - 05:50 'Why is this product on shop shelves and not with backers?' Sounds like they have run out of money to afford posting out copies. 1 year late means 1 year of company over heads that needed paying...
P1 - 11:10 'Wasn’t it supposed to be plastic at retail?' Sounds like they run out of money to do plastic - only one sprue got made. So continuing to sell resin to raise cash. Future retail version is being reduced in size, and KS size remains the same as the current retail version
Obviously I'm not typing out exactly what was said.
P1 -15:10 'What are your obligations to KS backers?' We can send them out when we want. We can refuse refunds while we dangle to dream of shipping one day.
P1 - 24:30 'Why is the KS down?' We deleted the wrong one; Fox then said they wanted it to stay down... Plus it’s easier to keep it down to avoid a whole load of bs.
P2 0- 6:30 'There’s a lot of negative stuff on the internet' This has taken a negative effect on Rob personally ... affecting his sleep etc. I started to feel sorry for him... But I then remembered they took our money willingly... Can't be happy with him taking my £238 and delivering feth all by now while I can see copies in my local FLGs and in forbidden planet and on eBay.
What comments do they expect Backers to make? Backing the project has turned out to be the worst/slowest way to get a copy. Basically we back the project and we collectively made it happen, and we are the last to get to play it.
Panic.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2015/08/14 14:52:44
Well I've got no illusions of getting anything "soon", and apparently as long as they post updates they can take as long as they like, as they mentioned, but it also makes them feel bad.
Put, on the positive, at least talys doesn't post in these threads.
There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.
2015/08/14 15:39:40
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
P2 0- 6:30 'There’s a lot of negative stuff on the internet' This has taken a negative effect on Rob personally ... affecting his sleep etc. I started to feel sorry for him... But I then remembered they took our money willingly...
I don't have time to go to your links right now but I did this on BGG:
My comment there was:
Me on BGG wrote:I love the way Rob between :40 and 1:16 talks about rewarding KS folks and making sure they get the benefits of having been early supporters.
Meanwhile, they have restocked some retailers and most KS backers still have nothing. They are fulfilling orders for the game from their own damned web store while KS backers are still waiting.
Talk about lack of integrity.
Screw Prodos.
If Rob has issues with being called a liar and having his integrity questioned, perhaps he should stop lying and proving he doesn't have much integrity. I don't give a crap about is feelings as it is perfectly clear he doesn't care about the feelings of the KS backers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/14 16:05:28
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/08/14 16:12:32
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
CptJake wrote: They are fulfilling orders for the game from their own damned web store while KS backers are still waiting.
Talk about lack of integrity.
Screw Prodos.
This^
I think they are out of money and need to sell copies to keep the company afloat while the trickle out copies to backers.
Basically they have no finacial motovation to supply to backers... Which would be fine if they come out and say this.
Not great but we would know why we are being gak on.
Why have the a webstore with 200 copies? shouldn't they have gone to backers.
In the Audio interview above Rob says they are making 200 and shipping 200 per day at the factory? to who?
I can only guess retail.
Which makes farce of what he said in that video interview you just linked...
Big Jim V wrote:This is Rumor Control and these are the Facts for August 14, 2015:
It been a bit of a quiet time here at Prodos Due to the holiday period we are at the end of, we will be steaming ahead at full strength next week.
1. There will be a new Retail version of the board game, so the Kickstarter version will become more exclusive again. The backers received the game via the Kickstarter with a huge discount, meaning that there was a small gap between the production cost and money received (profit on the game box), however, between 2013 when we initially have did the calculation and the time 2015 rolled up the manufacturing cost went up by almost 30%, meaning that we as Prodos have taken the cost on the chin, after all, the delays caused with approval and so on are not backers problem but instead are ours.
Now we have been told that the material cost is going up again, by 15%. We along with the manufacturer have come to consensus that we will release 2 versions of the game; the Kickstarter that you will receive and the retail that shops will begin receiving; the retail will be different from the Kickstarter version you will be getting, the box weights less by over 1KG (different materials used) and will be smaller by 3cm (with a new layout). There will also be a reduction in the number of tiles (a few corridors will be removed plus flamer and blast template is also game- since they are not used in the core board game at all).
This will allow us to make a retail version and KS as a 2 different version of the games as initially promised, thus, you the backer will keep the value vs money and quality that you have paid in 2013.
2. We are happy to announce that the Spanish version of the AvP:THB rules PDF is available to download on our website in the Download section. The French and German versions should be available next week.
If you would like to receive your game in different language than English we will make it an option in the pledge manager next week, as long as your game was not shipped already, we will get you the language of your choice sent to you.
3. Shipping and Wave 1 completion, we are doing our best to get all Wave 1 boxes shipped by the end of August, however this may slip until the middle of September. We understand this will be upsetting too many and are sorry that it is the case, but we want to be as honest as we can here. All North American backers will be sent by the end of August via our US partners Ninja Division.
Please bear with us a little while longer, we are shipping, it is steady going but a bit slow. Know that your rewards are coming, it’s just taking longer than we initially expected and for that we are truly sorry.
You the Kickstarter backers are very important to us and we are not happy that many of you are upset, we really wish it could be different, honestly. We wish you all had your board game boxes already and we were well on to Wave 2.
Cheers,
Prodos Games LTD
-----------------------------------
Still no backers shipped tracker
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/14 17:11:17
Has anyone with the box taken a look at scenarios and tiles that come with the box?
Are there any scenarios that use all the tiles? If not, how many tiles (realistically how many sheets of tiles) can they leave out of the 'retail' version and still have all the scenarios in the book be playable with what is in the box?
I wonder if this new 'retail' version will still include the KS Exclusive Resin Figures?
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/08/14 17:25:53
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
So when it was financially convienent for them to break their kickstarter promises at the expense of kickstarter backers, they did.. and now when it is financially convienent to return to them at the expense of future retail customers, they do. Lol... at least they're consistent in that regard.
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
2015/08/14 17:29:37
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
CptJake wrote: Has anyone with the box taken a look at scenarios and tiles that come with the box?
Are there any scenarios that use all the tiles? If not, how many tiles (realistically how many sheets of tiles) can they leave out of the 'retail' version and still have all the scenarios in the book be playable with what is in the box?
I wonder if this new 'retail' version will still include the KS Exclusive Resin Figures?
I don't believe any scenario in the starting booklet uses all the tiles. I can look again when I get home.
2015/08/14 17:29:42
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
I wonder how much of their resources they will transfer to making the new retail version and how quickly shops will get it - Rob mentions 2 weeks time in the interview which means they must already be gearing up to make them. If I recall correctly the interview mentioned removing 3 sheets of corridors which are not needed for the core game and that the miniatures will remain resin as they don't have the funds to make the plastic versions.
2015/08/14 17:31:12
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
CptJake wrote: Has anyone with the box taken a look at scenarios and tiles that come with the box?
Are there any scenarios that use all the tiles? If not, how many tiles (realistically how many sheets of tiles) can they leave out of the 'retail' version and still have all the scenarios in the book be playable with what is in the box?
I wonder if this new 'retail' version will still include the KS Exclusive Resin Figures?
They have only been able to pay for one plastic sprue (preds) so I'd guess yes.
Big Jim V wrote: 1. There will be a new Retail version of the board game, so the Kickstarter version will become more exclusive again...
Well it will equally as exclusive all retail sets currently being sold ... Currently £60 for a 'KS exclusive' copy at my local FLGsbtw
Big Jim V wrote:...If you would like to receive your game in different language than English we will make it an option in the pledge manager next week, as long as your game was not shipped already, we will get you the language of your choice sent to you.
So they're opening our pledge managers again!! christ.
I think this is the machine they are installing to our pledgemanagers.
Panic...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/14 17:39:36
Is that the same full strength the last year ran on?
1. And again, the fault lies at an unknown party. ~coughfoxcough~
2. ... Other languages ... great ... wonder what the distributor for Germany will say about it.
3. Wait, what? Prodos? Honest? That's a new one ... and I believe it, when I see it.
No, of course, new customers (retailers, their online shop) are fresh money - and what's more fun than spending fresh money?
Mh ... I dunno ...
No, absolutely feeling to pity for them and their sleepless nights. It's not like the haven't caused it themselves.
2015/08/14 18:44:55
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
Oh, and another teeny weeny nitpick, please correct me, if I'm wrong.
Let's go back wayyyyy, to end of campaign.
From this whine-post regarding production costs I read again, Prodos are absolutely crap when it comes down to contracts.
Which part ever went up for 30% and after that 15% ...
Again, I can be wrong, but Prodos have been tied by contract to take 5K games from the manufacturer.
But they forgot to put a clause into their contract, that no matter when after production starts, fixed price, no rise?
I know almost zilch about production, but when I would make a contract, forced to take X units I'd make sure I'd fix the manufacturer on the costs - raw materials getting more expensive? Well, sorry mr. manufacturer.
Ah well, no real news.
2015/08/14 19:29:39
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
Moses Bad wrote: Oh, and another teeny weeny nitpick, please correct me, if I'm wrong.
Let's go back wayyyyy, to end of campaign.
From this whine-post regarding production costs I read again, Prodos are absolutely crap when it comes down to contracts.
Which part ever went up for 30% and after that 15% ...
Again, I can be wrong, but Prodos have been tied by contract to take 5K games from the manufacturer.
But they forgot to put a clause into their contract, that no matter when after production starts, fixed price, no rise?
I know almost zilch about production, but when I would make a contract, forced to take X units I'd make sure I'd fix the manufacturer on the costs - raw materials getting more expensive? Well, sorry mr. manufacturer.
Ah well, no real news.
The way these contracts typically work is based of off quotations with lots of provisios. One of them being they will only be able to hold pricing on xyz until a certain date, and or, a clause saying that after such and such a date there will be a price increase. Due to most of this being based off the price of oil, which globally has dropped big time, yet the costs have been going up, due to the price of production at the refineries.. They (big oil) can't make money on the one hand so they make it on the other. I don't believe there was any way Prodos could protect themselves from certain price increases. At my work a quotation will only hold pricing for 30 days, but certain things are only one week, as they are volatile commodities. All of this excuses nothing, and if they would have had their poop in a group a year ago, would not be affecting them negatively at this time what so ever.
2015/08/14 19:45:12
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
Exalts for everybody! Plenty of lines to read between from the latest updates, which in fairness, has been prompt and public. I don't think backers are expected to like the news though.
I'd have to agree that it's the things not said which are the most telling. Amazed that they can't say X% of core boxes have been dispatched, which would still include the boxes collected at cons and boxes shipped to Ninja Division.
Perhaps I have selective memory, but I still cannot recall a backer posting here that they'd recieved their box. (Collecting from a con, preordering, ordering or picking up a box at retail doesn't count IMO.)
2015/08/14 19:59:43
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
CptJake wrote: I wonder if this new 'retail' version will still include the KS Exclusive Resin Figures?
I'm assuming they are going to use the "spin-cast" resin miniatures that they previewed recently in the new "low-value" retail boxes, and the KS exclusive boxes, including already shipped to retail and backers, will have the traditional poured resin miniatures
Oh, and shipping is going to slip into September, really, did not see that coming!
2015/08/14 22:27:08
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
Grumpae wrote: Due to most of this being based off the price of oil, which globally has dropped big time, yet the costs have been going up, due to the price of production at the refineries.. They (big oil) can't make money on the one hand so they make it on the other. I don't believe there was any way Prodos could protect themselves from certain price increases.
They could have delivered on time, and not suffered the cost of delay.
PomWallaby wrote: Perhaps I have selective memory, but I still cannot recall a backer posting here that they'd recieved their box. (Collecting from a con, preordering, ordering or picking up a box at retail doesn't count IMO.)
Uhm, here, me, only one I know about ... about three weeks ago.
After a fairly pissed but sarcastic toned email.
2015/08/15 10:01:30
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 07/08/15 FB Update pg 178
PomWallaby wrote: Perhaps I have selective memory, but I still cannot recall a backer posting here that they'd recieved their box. (Collecting from a con, preordering, ordering or picking up a box at retail doesn't count IMO.)
Uhm, here, me, only one I know about ... about three weeks ago.
After a fairly pissed but sarcastic toned email.
Still nothing for me, maybe I am to patient and polite...
Legion: Dark Angels 
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
-- 
