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Secret Weapons kickstarter hit many delays, but the thread didn't turn into a raging shitstorm.

Was his communication better then the three listed here?

Did updates actually contain updates?

Yes indeedy, very professional, though im sure it was just coincidence.....

Welcome to the cesspool, eh?

The problem is, has been the lack of honesty. They need to seriously look at all the events that have lead to this situation. That have caused their backers to be less than happy, like their feelings. They should have been more forthcoming on the reality of the delays. I'm not even sure they intended to deceive or if they were just passing along their own hopes rather than realistic completion dates. It would have been much better to be open, rather than give us a guess. They could have given us project updates, real ones, as things were completed, maybe even showing pictures. Pictures that excited, not extremely disappointed and disillusioned backers, but excited fans. People that would have spread the news, increased the fan base and ultimately made them quite successful. Sigh.

Oh, and whoever threatened their employee, is a douche.

 Alpharius wrote:
It's largely irrelevant.

Dakka is the biggest and most active forum of its type.

For the most part, it also has the lightest touch from a Moderation perspective too. (I'm not kidding!)

There's very little 'clamp down' here - so it is what it is.

I think most users prefer it that way.

There are definitely vocal people in Dakka but it honestly isn't meant to be malicious, for the most part, people are just passionate. Even those who I've had 'strong' disagreements with, we don't hold grudges against each other and at the end of the day will sit down and play games, drink with each other. Since there is a light amount of Moderation, there is definitely a greater amount of discussions that can get heated though. The trick is to not take it personally. Even in the Palladium/AvP threads where accusations are thrown around, it is because despite given 'reasons' don't necessarily feel like they fully answer questions/issues. There are many reasons for that but ultimately it leads to speculation which people will naturally twist words... welcome to the internet.

 Grumpae wrote:
I'm not even sure they intended to deceive or if they were just passing along their own hopes rather than realistic completion dates. It would have been much better to be open, rather than give us a guess.

Oh, and whoever threatened their employee, is a douche.

Like most things it was probably a combination of both. Every company will like to spin a positive side on things, that is part of PR. There probably were some good intentions they planned to keep, but things get sidetracked or there are delays. One delay in one area, causes delays in other areas and it is an avalanche unfortunately. I think the main issue is they are trying to reach out to people as people, which on a smaller scale for smaller KS that works out great. For larger ones not so much as everyone is rabid and just wants their stuff, it tends to meld into a mob more than individual people as they all get lost in the mass. Sticking to facts and numbers, post total numbers for the whole project, then post how many has shipped and how many is outstanding along with regional locations (use percentages if you don't want exact numbers), when you ship, post how much, did it go by boat, plane and when delayed post about it immediately. At this late in the game, don't try to be personable, let that be handled by customer service behind the scenes and just trudge through the mess. Then once finally done, you can go back and post what was learned, plans to prevent it from the future, lessons, etc.

I don't think lateness was ever the primary issue. Instead deception and poor comms (when there were comms) were the main issues. Broken promises on things like KS exclusivity sure as gak didn't help either.

Well, to take a leaf out of the prodos handbook, all that's in the past, you can do and say whatever you want, there's no accountability.

I love that they list Dakka as the cesspit just after mentioning Frothers with no slagging

That would be Frothers whose FAQ (which is one of the best I've seen) includes:

Help, someone said some rude words!
Someone said poo again, in a public forum? Dash it all to high heaven. Seriously, FU!UK is a place for everyone to kick back and relax, away from the heavy moderation and careful diplomacy of some other, more “professional” websites. Say what you feel, rant, rave and abuse each other because the moderators here will assume you are all grown up enough that you don’t need protecting from rude words (and frankly don’t give a feth in any case). If you take serious offence at a post someone has made, it may be that the moderator will need to step in and take charge... or it may be that you need to take a step back and lighten up a bit. This might not suit everyone but there you are. In general, if you don’t like what someone has said to you then you can either ignore them, or call them a witch. Either works.

(obviously it doesn't say feth and witch in the actual one)

While there has been a good bit of rage towards Prodos on here, most of it has been pretty justified! Though nobody went as far as going completely nuts.

However, the vast majority of Kickstarters I've backed (about 14 or so) have all been delivered in a fairly timely manner (ie on, or just outside of their estimated delivery) with exception to AvP and Creature Caster.

Threatening people is so low, I advise the moles to take cover.
And at least I can say, like Jack said, it was never about the delays.

For an example of a KS that didn't run so smooth: T5.
Delivery was expected May 14. Anybody angry there? No.
Because the creator is giving out an update ever month, roughly the same time. He has informed his backers, what the delays where (two man company, laser breaking down, wife can't work due to injury) but he's shuffeling along.
Nobody's on his back. He even answers to commentsno later than two days. He dropped the ball and picked it up again.
Prodos on the other hand dropped it, kicked it towards their own goal and then wandered off the field, wondering why people are booing.

Prodos, guys, chumps, it's fine to feel angry and frustrated as how things are.
But that is a stew you yourselves brewed. It's not right to pass your blame, just because you can't handle it or it doesn't fit with the way you view yourselves.
Only in Kindergarden (and mybe the first two years of elementary schol) it's fine to sit in a corner and cry because of the mean kids, who you stole the lunch money from first. After that you are expected to deal with it.

Hi all.

After reading that last update and seeing Dakka referred to as a cesspool of hate, I felt I had to stop by and counter it with a heart-felt thank you.

I'm not a kickstarter backer, but rather one of those underhanded types that signed on when Prodos re-opened the pledge manager over 12 months ago. As a 'late-backer' I don't get any of the kickstarter updates and wasn't even aware of the facebook group until recently. As Prodos have yet to reply to any of my emails, searching the internet for information has been my only option and Dakka was one of the first sources I found.

I didn't know about Dakka until AvP, and while some posts have certainly been passionate, I don't think anything in this thread has been abusive, or untruthful. If Prodos don't want people using third party sites to gain information, then they should do a better job of communicating with their customers.

So, as one of the silent minority still awaiting my order, I wanted to stop by and thank you all for collating and posting all of the information you have so far.

Thanks.

Bluehammer wrote:
Hi all.

After reading that last update and seeing Dakka referred to as a cesspool of hate, I felt I had to stop by and counter it with a heart-felt thank you.

I'm not a kickstarter backer, but rather one of those underhanded types that signed on when Prodos re-opened the pledge manager over 12 months ago. As a 'late-backer' I don't get any of the kickstarter updates and wasn't even aware of the facebook group until recently. As Prodos have yet to reply to any of my emails, searching the internet for information has been my only option and Dakka was one of the first sources I found.

I didn't know about Dakka until AvP, and while some posts have certainly been passionate, I don't think anything in this thread has been abusive, or untruthful. If Prodos don't want people using third party sites to gain information, then they should do a better job of communicating with their customers.

So, as one of the silent minority still awaiting my order, I wanted to stop by and thank you all for collating and posting all of the information you have so far.

Thanks.

Well, that's ultimately what we're here for - sharing information about the hobby we all love!

Thanks for the kinds words, and welcome to Dakka Dakka!

Bluehammer wrote:
Hi all.

After reading that last update and seeing Dakka referred to as a cesspool of hate, I felt I had to stop by and counter it with a heart-felt thank you.

I'm not a kickstarter backer, but rather one of those underhanded types that signed on when Prodos re-opened the pledge manager over 12 months ago. As a 'late-backer' I don't get any of the kickstarter updates and wasn't even aware of the facebook group until recently. As Prodos have yet to reply to any of my emails, searching the internet for information has been my only option and Dakka was one of the first sources I found.

I didn't know about Dakka until AvP, and while some posts have certainly been passionate, I don't think anything in this thread has been abusive, or untruthful. If Prodos don't want people using third party sites to gain information, then they should do a better job of communicating with their customers.

So, as one of the silent minority still awaiting my order, I wanted to stop by and thank you all for collating and posting all of the information you have so far.

Thanks.

Just gotta say, you are hardly in the minority. Those that are speaking up are very few of us. Most I think are just waiting with baited breath for the other shoe to drop. If we didn't have money invested in this, it would probably be quite comical watching all of this unfold. The truth, they say is stranger than fiction.

I'd like to echo Bluehammer's comments.

I only know about the game from this forum. So it's all your fault.

I got to see much more information about the game here than anywhere else, and share in the enthusiasm for it. I got "lucky" that the pledges were then reopened.

As a result, I get all of my information (and a lot of useful context) about the game here and no communication at all from the company that received my money.

"Every action has a reaction, and all that." is exactly right. I can only hope that they have a long look at themselves, as their actions have resulted in the vast majority of the bad reactions relating to the project that I've seen.

I can't say I've much sympathy for nearly all of that communication. Others have already touched on how to communicate delays effectively to continued support. It would seem that basic honesty plays a fairly large role in that happening.

"most companies would have given up by now" was particularly irritating.

Perhaps stopping after "We have established that it's quite clear, nothing is enough, unless we actually get your product shipped." would have been better. I don't recall wanting anything *other* than the product being shipped.

Some people can only be happy, as long as they are either victorous or the poor vitctims. They know, they can't be the victors anymore, so they try to play the victim card.

 Moses Bad wrote:
Some people can only be happy, as long as they are either victorous or the poor vitctims. They know, they can't be the victors anymore, so they try to play the victim card.

There is a diagnosis for that, its called boarderline personality disorder.

Well, there are two places, where you can find guys, who happily crawl up Prodos' rear - BGG (look at the threat and you know who I'm talking about) and the same guy in their own forums.
Aww, as long as one guy is happy ... who cares about the cesspool, right?
Oh, right, that guy wasn't a backer, he was an online shop customer.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I'm sensing a certain theme in that list...

I've heard the same thing from a few others, including companies that Dakka actually likes.

Would you say such a company was almost manic?

yeah,
I went on face book and told them I didn't like that comment.

yeah,
"... Dakka Dakka, that well-known cesspit of vitriol and hate! "
So is this what Prodos believe?

Why did you advertise the KS on Dakka if you dislike us?
As a user of Dakka Dakka I take this as a very personal insult.

I saw the Prodos AVP campaign on Dakka and pledged a lot of money on the KS due to the support/Buzz Dakka Dakka generated for Prodos.
And now you feel you can withhold my product from me and insult me.

If this is what you think of me I’d like to have my money back.

Gary.
AKA Panic...

https://www.facebook.com/prodosgamesltd/timeline#!/prodosgamesltd/posts/512213058943354

I'm also going to email every one of those contacts and see who bothers to reply.

Panic...

There's a (not very friendly) saying here in Germany:
Kaum gestolen, schon in Polen.
Hardly stolen, already in Poland.

Prejudice as this is, it applies to Prodos, having their main base in Poland now. OK, I still think we'll get the stuff someday (not to use the word soon), but until then ... naw, going all cesspool again. Just remember, we owe Prodos a lot of thanks for giving us this awesome game (soon) and we should build shrines and worship them.

This came today...

This is Rumor Control and these are the Facts for Friday September 11, 2015

We have launched the Prodos Games Blog and will be posting these same updates every Friday there as well as emailing them directly to you. http://blog.prodosgames.com/

Here is an update video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFtVwp-9DKk

This week we have shipped 350 parcels to backers from the UK, Europe and the rest of the world. The KS backer boxes shown in the video will be shipped next week. Of course, the American continent is not included, as those are en-route to Ninja Division, or already with them. We are hoping for a similar level of shipping next week for Kickstarter.

The US shipment to Golden Distribution and the Spanish shipment to Miniaturama shown in the Video are retail copies, not the Backer versions that all Kickstarter pledgers (and post-KS pledgers) will be receiving. Golden Distribution have been waiting for these for quite some time and we are shipping them so that they are ready for their end of month release date.

Ninja Division have agreed to start shipping the pledges next week. Please be aware that this was a request made by Prodos Games so that we can at least get most of the USA shipment sorted out quickly. The rest will hit USA shores in 2-3 weeks, keeping in mind that there will be customs clearance after that.

spiel 2015
Essen Spiel is coming up (October 8th-11th), we can see some of you are already asking about how to pick up your copies from the show. We’re hoping to let you know in the next few days. For now, our suggestion is to bring out a printed version of your pledge manager to the show and we will hand over a copy of the game. We will have English and German available on site. Our stand is 2-E175, so please do not hesitate to come and say hello (or hallo/guten tag!)!

Please don’t be a stranger to the blog, feel free to comment, feel free to share with your friends and keep an eye out on the news we will regularly be posting about our little company.

We’re also still going under major reconstructive work to our website, as currently, it’s not exactly user friendly. We’re also still working on our web presence, so please bear with us.

Many thanks!
Prodos Games LTD

Check out the Prodos Games website: http://prodosgames.com

Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ProdosGames

Issue with your order? Please contact agata.mazurek@prodos.co.uk

Soon.... mmm hmmm

Here's the video to save folks a trip...

Wasn't the stuff to ND shipped like two or three weeks ago?

 Moses Bad wrote:
Wasn't the stuff to ND shipped like two or three weeks ago?

There's a lot of stuff lol.

 warboss wrote:


So to improve its image within the industry, Dakka's community needs to post thousands of borderline porn pics and links to pirated files? That is a very dysfunctional industry.

That would save me a lot of navigation time... it is so convenient to have everything in one place!

Wait, now there IS a difference between the retatil and KS versions? I thought retail was getting the same thing we were? When did that change?

Had they made that a point in their communications it might have consoled some of the backers.

 Todosi wrote:
Wait, now there IS a difference between the retatil and KS versions? I thought retail was getting the same thing we were? When did that change?

Had they made that a point in their communications it might have consoled some of the backers.

The later retail version, IIKR.
The version now, same as KS backers.
The version to come, still resin minis, but less tiles.

If I'm wrong, somebody please correct me.

Retail has been getting the same thing.

They did mention trying to use thinner cardboard and a couple less sheets of tiles for a 'new' retail version, but they still will include the KS Exclusive resin figures. Frankly when they said it it seemed a frantic attempt to lessen their cost per unit rather than an attempt to make good on the KS promises.

Did they actually say thinner, or just less. I can't remember them saying it was thinner board? I just remember them saying they were taking out a few sheets of tiles. Not of course that I have any plans what-so-ever to buy a retail copy.

never mind