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0466/06/08 17:24:57
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 08/10/15 1 day, 2 updates pg 204
The Essen prices seem to be a for the event as Firestorm listed the RRP as the same as the KS prices for the Queen, Powerloader and Hounds (but thye end up cheaper after the retailers discount)
They "forgot" to post the update that they were breaking their KS promise again until AFTER the news had already filtered out that they were selling even more products to new customers before backers got their stuff? I'm not surprised that they were supposedly too busy to post that little nugget last week.
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
2015/10/08 18:01:12
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 08/10/15 1 day, 2 updates pg 204
Final point, many of you have aptly observed that at the end of October, we plan to release – to retail – the Alien Queen, Predator Hellhounds and the Power Loader. We are aware that this is going back on a promise we made previously, for which we apologise. We cannot expect you to be understanding, and we do not expect that, but we just want to explain that this decision does not come easily (if it did, we would just release the whole lot); but is a measure made so that we can generate the revenue required to ship out AvP to you guys and sustain our business. We are also coming up to license renewal time; which will of course have a cost attached to it that we must generate the revenue for in order to keep this game alive into the coming years.
These were supposed to be KS campaign exclusives?
That a tough one there - how many additional sales were generated based on assumptions of scarcity/rarity/etc.?
No, the Berserker and the KS Exclusive Resin game box were the only real exclusives. The promise is us KS backers would get those items before they went to retail.
Ah, slightly less of an offense then!
Still, when piled on top of all the others...
2024/12/08 18:52:11
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 08/10/15 1 day, 2 updates pg 204
yeah,
Lie after lie. Insult after insult.
I think I've reached the point that the only thing Prodos could do to shock me is delivering my pledge…
It's such a shame. I had such high hopes.
As much as I love the AVP brand, I think right now if my package did arrive I'd have to consider selling it. Prodos’s treatment of me as a KS backers has tainted the product and any joy I could get from it.
It could have been a great game with a long series of releases...
But I honestly don't think I could spend a single penny more on this game knowing it would go to Prodos?
Nie gryź ręki, która Cię karmi.
I don't think I'll ever see all of my pledge.
I think for me the best thing would be for Fox to pull the plug so we can all apply for refunds. I'm so bored and tired of their gak and I don't really want anything to do with these clowns, just my money back.
Panic, are you polish or did you get that phrase from elsewhere? In any case, I'd have everyone know that the translation for bastion of honesty and truth is NOT directly translated into Polish as a hive of scum and villainy despite Prodos' claims regarding Dakka.
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
2015/10/08 20:06:13
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 08/10/15 1 day, 2 updates pg 204
I joined specifically to say how unhappy I am with this KS after watching this thread for a long time.
I am a UK backer who put in a £300 pledge and has not received anything while my FLGS has had about 6 copies on the shelf since June/July. I now find this talk of 'license renewal' time very very worrying as if Prodos go under no backers will see their models. Which admittedly look amazing and the IP has always been a favourite of mine.
It's become obvious that Prodos are in financial dire-straits. I wish they had just said this months ago as it's something I could sympathise with. The sympathy which was there has now run out.
2015/10/09 11:58:09
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 08/10/15 1 day, 2 updates pg 204
None of my friends backers in France haven't received yet one box...
Just one question : at the beginning, CMON was said that it be in the affair for dispatching boxes in USA/Canada... But now we're soken about Ninja Division...
Did CMON ran out after seeing how prodos is a trap ?
I don't think the reason to use CMON was ever given. I do remember a lot of anti-CMON sentiment in the AvP KS comments. If I remember correctly folks put some of the blame for McVey's Sedition Wars disaster on CMON.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/10/09 13:21:59
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 08/10/15 1 day, 2 updates pg 204
CptJake wrote: I don't think the reason to use CMON was ever given. I do remember a lot of anti-CMON sentiment in the AvP KS comments. If I remember correctly folks put some of the blame for McVey's Sedition Wars disaster on CMON.
I bet those folks are eating their words now, not that CMON would have been able to ship what Prodos hadn't given them... At least CMON ks get shipped. I would be very surprised if Fox were to actually extend Prodos the license after all this bs, but who knows.
2015/10/09 13:26:54
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 08/10/15 1 day, 2 updates pg 204
I never understood the Sedition Wars hate for CMON. To me it was always clear McVey was the problem. CMON at that point had done very well with the original Zombicide and a couple other KS projects. Delivery was not what hurt Sedition Wars...
As for Fox extending, who knows. I bet one reason Prodos censors their Facebook and forums (and why they shut down the KS) is so the visible signs of their fething up are not as prevalent to Fox. Fox won't have folks looking here for example. I would be willing to bet Prodos shows Fox a very happy sun shiny rainbow filled picture, and frankly would not be surprised if they cook the books when it comes to the numbers they show Fox. And it is such a TINY piece of Fox's business that Fox has no real reason to dig into it too much.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/10/09 13:43:05
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 08/10/15 1 day, 2 updates pg 204
I could definitely see Fox not really caring about this effort, enough to shut it down. I have a very hard time believing that anyone at Prodos is even somewhat capable of "cooking the books", not that they wouldn't want to, just that they wouldn't have a clue as to how to do it. If they did, they would probably just make themselves look worse... It takes skill and a knowledge of business that they have never showed that they possess! If they can't even do it right... how can they make it look that way?
2015/10/09 16:39:25
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 08/10/15 1 day, 2 updates pg 204
CptJake wrote: I never understood the Sedition Wars hate for CMON. To me it was always clear McVey was the problem. CMON at that point had done very well with the original Zombicide and a couple other KS projects. Delivery was not what hurt Sedition Wars...
As for Fox extending, who knows. I bet one reason Prodos censors their Facebook and forums (and why they shut down the KS) is so the visible signs of their fething up are not as prevalent to Fox. Fox won't have folks looking here for example. I would be willing to bet Prodos shows Fox a very happy sun shiny rainbow filled picture, and frankly would not be surprised if they cook the books when it comes to the numbers they show Fox. And it is such a TINY piece of Fox's business that Fox has no real reason to dig into it too much.
I don't see them cooking the books. Putting an unrealisticly favorable spin on sales ("look, we've got XXX number of orders for the game!" while forgetting to mention the thousands of kickstarter copies they're screwing backers out of getting in a timely fashion in order to fill those new orders) as well as sweeping everything negative under the rug when possible (like shutting down the KS for fraudulent IP reasons as well as heavily pruning commentary elsewhere if not shutting it down completely). Both of those are par for the course and methods that Prodos has demonstrated they're willing to use when convienent.
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
2015/10/09 16:49:54
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 08/10/15 1 day, 2 updates pg 204
I guess I include skipping number owed to backers (to include the cost of shipping those orders) in order to give a better financial picture as 'cooking the books', since it paints a less than accurate picture of the financial situation.
Perhaps 'cooking the books' is the wrong term, but I seriously doubt they are showing an accurate accounting of their situation.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/10/09 18:07:52
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 08/10/15 1 day, 2 updates pg 204
One does wonder with some hine-sight if the delay is also so the KS and after KS backers can be moved into 'We currently have XXXX number of orders for this game' And we are selling to XXXX Retail units.
It would present a nice image and give a sense of importance on the game.
CptJake wrote: I never understood the Sedition Wars hate for CMON. To me it was always clear McVey was the problem. CMON at that point had done very well with the original Zombicide and a couple other KS projects. Delivery was not what hurt Sedition Wars...
Indeed. The major problems with SedWars:
1. gakky rules
2. gakky scenarios
3. change of scale and stats
4. delayed delivery
5. bad communications
ALL of that rests at the feet of McVey, not CMoN. McVey was responsible for the rules, and it's clear that they have no idea how a SHulk game should play. McVey was responsible for the scenarios, which had terrible balance and progression. McVey decided to rebalance the game to "make it harder" for no good reason. McVey decided to swithch from Heroic to Scale, for no good reason. All of this delayed wave 2. And all of it was done without incorporating any backer feedback, or even announcing that there would be changes and delays.
CMoN, OTOH, did a fair job of delivering what McVey gave them. But CMoN can't deliver what McVey hasn't produced.
McVey dug his own grave here, and he should be enduringly thankful that CMoN continues to use him for things like the Others.
Well maybe the best thing would have been to let McVey sculpt the minis, do what he does best, and leave the rest of things to everyone else; business planning etc.
I also think the scale of the KS took everyone, not least McVey, completely by surprise.
Sir Isaac Newton may be the deadliest son-of-a-bitch in space, but John von Neumann is the logistics officer that eats your problems and turns them into kit.
2015/10/10 09:23:02
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 08/10/15 1 day, 2 updates pg 204
Is that the plastic retail version? JK
But in the absence of anything from Prodos those look awesome and "close enough".
Automatically Appended Next Post: On another note Panzerfaust has launched on kickstarter. It appears that a lot of money must have been spent developing it so far. Perhaps they should have spent a little less and shipped at least Wave 1 of AVP first.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/10 10:47:36
2015/10/10 12:03:11
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 08/10/15 1 day, 2 updates pg 204
Someone ought to point out the relationship between Prodos and Hysterical Games to KS. Not that KS would do anything about it, but they should know that by allowing Prodos under the Hysterical Games name to do another KS after fething up AvP so badly, and lying to KS int he process to get the page taken down, that KS could be opening themselves up to some interesting issues.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/10/10 13:53:27
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 08/10/15 1 day, 2 updates pg 204
Look at it this way - the more money the make out of this, the sooner they can ship AvP (you don't honestly believe they suddenly developed management skills, do you?).
2015/10/10 14:10:43
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 08/10/15 1 day, 2 updates pg 204
CptJake wrote: I never understood the Sedition Wars hate for CMON. To me it was always clear McVey was the problem. CMON at that point had done very well with the original Zombicide and a couple other KS projects. Delivery was not what hurt Sedition Wars...
Indeed. The major problems with SedWars:
1. gakky rules
2. gakky scenarios
3. change of scale and stats
4. delayed delivery
5. bad communications
ALL of that rests at the feet of McVey, not CMoN. McVey was responsible for the rules, and it's clear that they have no idea how a SHulk game should play. McVey was responsible for the scenarios, which had terrible balance and progression. McVey decided to rebalance the game to "make it harder" for no good reason. McVey decided to swithch from Heroic to Scale, for no good reason. All of this delayed wave 2. And all of it was done without incorporating any backer feedback, or even announcing that there would be changes and delays.
CMoN, OTOH, did a fair job of delivering what McVey gave them. But CMoN can't deliver what McVey hasn't produced.
McVey dug his own grave here, and he should be enduringly thankful that CMoN continues to use him for things like the Others.
While all fault for the rules lays with mcvey, cmon were responsible for production of the physical goods.
As such the buck stops with them for the gakky quality boards and abysmal minatures and other such issues. As a backer it was painfully obvious that cmon got everything produced as cheaply as possible and pocketed the rest.
Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis
2015/10/10 15:43:26
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 08/10/15 1 day, 2 updates pg 204
Moses Bad wrote: Look at it this way - the more money the make out of this, the sooner they can ship AvP (you don't honestly believe they suddenly developed management skills, do you?).
Hadn't thought of that. Possible Prodos Ponzi Plan? Panzerfaust KS funds which fix AVP KS funds which fix Warzone KS funds.
2015/10/10 15:51:13
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games 08/10/15 1 day, 2 updates pg 204
Unlikely since the directors are not the same (nor are they 'family'
scammers are unlikely to hand ownership of their 'cake' to anybody they don't have a tight hold of in case the new owners eat it all themselves
It seems more likely that you work for a wargaming company because you like wargaming,
and so you may have ideas for your own game,
and since your current employer does work on 3rd party stuff for hire (and does a nice job on the sculpting/casting front) you'd use them... if nothing else you get so watch stuff actually getting done much more closely than if you'd gone with an outside contractor
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
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