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2015/12/22 00:04:57
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
There was also the recent picture of retail packaged expansions with some statement to the effect "Here is all the stuff ready to ship" and it was implied at least some of it was to go to us backers.
Come on Jarek, why not explain all this so we don't have to speculate?
Why are you not sending us the packaged items?
Did Fox approve you sending items NOT in the retail packaging to us backers? If so, why did you claim one of the hold ups was waiting for Fox to approve the packaging?
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/12/22 14:40:01
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
I had thought at one time, to list chronologically all the things Prodos told us, and then reneged on, straight out lied about, and other snafus they have presented us with. Then, I realized that I don't need to be that depressed. Seriously, how can we realistically expect anything they tell us is true? Every step of the way there has been deception, mis-stated facts, and overly obtuse comunication. My ability to have any faith in their efforts, or even belief that they are capable of handling this project, is long gone. I don't even know if there is anything that they could do at this stage of the game to even break even with me anymore. I've wanted this for too long to just sell it when I get it, so that for me isn't an option, but I will never buy another product by them, unless its at my flgs, in stock.
2015/12/22 22:14:24
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
JoeRugby wrote: [..] but who would give them any money after this sham?
I know, probably rhetorical, but... unfortunately, as all too often happens, a whole new batch of those utterly ignorant of past goings on and a varying number of those who should know better led by those of a faithful bent who choose to willfully ignore that any misdeeds ever occurred at all - because what problems did crop up were all just, misunderstandings, or no one's fault.
Also, when things eventually get too bad reputation-wise, a company can simply reincorporate in some fashion to ''change'' their identity before the subsequent round of funding towards [X] product and eventually play the ''Who, us? That so totally wasn't, we promise.'' card down the road.
_
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/12/22 22:35:40
"These reports were remarkably free of self-serving rhetoric. Most commanders admitted mistakes, scrutinized plans and doctrine, and suggested practical improvements." - Col. Joseph H. Alexander, USMC (Ret), from 'Utmost Savagery, The Three Days of Tarawa''
"I tell you there is something splendid in a man who will not always obey. Why, if we had done as the kings had told us five hundred years ago, we should have all been slaves. If we had done as the priests told us, we should have all been idiots. If we had done as the doctors told us, we should have all been dead.
We have been saved by disobedience." - Robert G. Ingersoll
"At this point, I'll be the first to admit it, I so do not give them the benefit of the doubt that, if they saved all the children and puppies from a burning orphanage, I would probably suspect them of having started the fire. " - mrondeau, on DP9
"No factual statement should be relied upon without further investigation on your part sufficient to satisfy you in your independent judgment that it is true." - Small Wars Journal
2015/12/23 05:25:04
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
Off topic I know, but if I saw unsecured pallets of boxes stacked atop one another in one of my production facilities, I'd push the top pallet over onto the offender as they walked past to demonstrate why you don't do that.
There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.
2015/12/23 09:40:03
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
I didn't know Prodos held the Trademark for "Space Crusade". But it certainly appears so. I'll speculate we'll see a Heroquest 25 thing for Space Crusade, but not on kickstarter. Being honest, true scale "Space Crusaders" could tempt me discounted at retail.
But honestly, the company has had enough cash to invest in new product lines, but not fulfil pledges? I'll hold off the bashing though since the latest update looked like things were going to arrive "soon".
On another note, a mate has ordered AVP recently so perhaps I'll finally see a game.
And finally, how come an APC hasn't been sculpted? That would have sold like hot cakes. One of the few things that would make me add to the re-re-re-reopenned pledge manager.
2015/12/23 11:12:23
Subject: Re:AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
"And HOLY gak it all kicks off again on the FB page. Now Jarek is threatening to delay peoples packages until everything is approved because people have been mean to him and his family.
For feths sake I absolutely agree there is no need or call for attacking peoples family, but he got told to stop using his personal FB account so many times it even got flagged to them.
But of course it has nothing to do with the months of deceit and lying he has been taking an active part in."
I don't use facebook, so can anyone please copy the relevant parts and/or tell us non-FB-users what is currently going on there?!? It's hard to stay up to date without a real/official communication channel... So we have to gather our infos from around the net ourselves.
2015/12/23 11:31:34
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
CptJake wrote: I would love to see Jarek engage folks on Frothers. It would be quite entertaining.
You'd tend to see a duplicate to the pattern of postings that occurs when Khurasan posts their announcements over there, only it would be me and a couple of others taking Pete's role on that one.
"And HOLY gak it all kicks off again on the FB page. Now Jarek is threatening to delay peoples packages until everything is approved because people have been mean to him and his family.
For feths sake I absolutely agree there is no need or call for attacking peoples family, but he got told to stop using his personal FB account so many times it even got flagged to them.
But of course it has nothing to do with the months of deceit and lying he has been taking an active part in."
I don't use facebook, so can anyone please copy the relevant parts and/or tell us non-FB-users what is currently going on there?!? It's hard to stay up to date without a real/official communication channel... So we have to gather our infos from around the net ourselves.
It was a little late coming to Frothers (like many modern things ) but it was regarding the post that Jarek made implying people had threatened his family and were bullying him (sidenote: Jarek is very, very good at written English for the social media age - he posts that he is being harrassed and insulted while waving words like family and threats around the vicinity of the conversation, and lazy facebookers turn that into posting that backers are directly threatening his family members which he never corrects). I've copied his original posting into the spoiler below in case you missed it:
Spoiler:
Hi there all, another update, rather long one.
Future communication:
I am afraid that it will be last update posted from my personal account, in last few days I've faced personal harassment and offensive language towards my person from one of the backers. Unfortunately, my family was involved, as it was firstly spotted by my son... I think I don't have to explain any more why I am not going to be posting more updates nor I'll be answering any questions regarding AvP via my personal account. With this experience in mind we've decided to create a Company Account, run by Prodos sales team members, that will be posting future updates, it seems that doing something innovative (non other Wargamig company does that) like using personal FB accounts turned against us big time, to the horrible level when our families are being damaged, our words twisted around and we have to now accept abuse just because our personal FB accounts are taken as Prodos ones.
Well, reinventing the wheel went wrong for us, I am afraid.
We will gather questions under each update and provide answers with following update, meaning that we won't answer question in no time as it used to be.
About Complains:
We had been under impression that we would get full list of products (as on KS) approved in one go. This, obviously did not happen. We have been told, later in the process, that we'll be given an approval on a Board game and then slowly on more pieces. As stated many times, the product once approved needed to go through sales regardless of what we have been wishing or thinking, there was no other option. It was our decision to take a bullet and ship it in waves to backers, once we have the game and later bits of addons approved, in fact there was no other option neither. As much as I totally understand the reasons for complains, we as company won't tolerate any offensive attacks directed towards Prodos employees or their families. We've lost few good members of Prodos due this already, thus, if you really want to offend us personally or our families then please continue to do so, we will make sure that you product will be shipped as agreed initially in one parcel after everything is approved, after all, the wave shipping is coming out of Prodos pocket so why Prodos should pay for it to those that are making personal attack towards Prodos employees or their families? There are more patient and understandable backers that deserve it more, in my opinion, than someone constantly going against our families or threatening us via personal messages or taking actions to damage Prodos.
We are really doing all we can to fulfil it as soon as possible.
About pledge manager:
Please, another call to backers to double check their names in PM.
Also, we got 21 undelivered parcels coming back to us in last month, you should be getting a tracking number on your KS emial address once parcel is shipped. I had a chat with our packing team and they will make sure that courier company is given your KS emial for tracking purposes.
Holidays
Final words: we wish you happy and peaceful holidays. Today 41 parcels left the house out of 250+ planned for this week and we are sure that they will be delivered before Christmas.
Thanks again.
Regards J.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/23 11:57:52
"And HOLY gak it all kicks off again on the FB page. Now Jarek is threatening to delay peoples packages until everything is approved because people have been mean to him and his family.
For feths sake I absolutely agree there is no need or call for attacking peoples family, but he got told to stop using his personal FB account so many times it even got flagged to them.
But of course it has nothing to do with the months of deceit and lying he has been taking an active part in."
I don't use facebook, so can anyone please copy the relevant parts and/or tell us non-FB-users what is currently going on there?!? It's hard to stay up to date without a real/official communication channel... So we have to gather our infos from around the net ourselves.
What is frothers? I did a google search and got a bunch of crap on amazon pop up on the first page.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So now replying to stuff on Facebook with your personal account instead of creating a company account is innovative instead of just easier/lazy? In that case, I innovated last week when I put hot cocoa in my coffee because I was out of sugar and didn't want to drive to the grocery store. I call this reinvention of the wheel that I created "mocha".
Also, wasn't the previous meltdown also in the lead up to christmas when they shutdown the facebook account for dubious reasons after being criticized fairly? Can anyone post a link to the actual "attack" on the family members of Prodos employees? There are the obvious comments about Prodos employess themselves being called liars but I haven't seen anything here on dakka (not on facebook myself) about family members other than recommendations that you shouldn't be both screwing up AND using personal accounts for business if you don't want your family to witness the former.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/23 15:41:39
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
2015/12/23 15:46:42
Subject: Re:AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
Their forums are not moderated and language can be a bit rough. Some very talented folks there, and some of the resources (like minis available by period) are damned good.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/12/23 15:57:07
Subject: Re:AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
Their forums are not moderated and language can be a bit rough. Some very talented folks there, and some of the resources (like minis available by period) are damned good.
Ah, thanks. I was apparently also mentally mispronouncing it as well.
It's not based on the word "brother" but rather "froth" as in to froth at the mouth. And, yeah, if this is the reception they get here on dakka where it is actually moderated then I can see why folks would be surprised about them going to a site where there is no moderation (doubly so when you add in the fact of them shutting down their KS page for false IP reasons just to avoid uncomfortable questions about rolling delays).
It's got a very retro look from the 1990's as well kind of like TMP. I don't know if that is just because they're innovators like Prodos or just because they haven't bothered updating it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/23 15:58:27
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
2015/12/23 21:07:47
Subject: Re:AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
"And HOLY gak it all kicks off again on the FB page. Now Jarek is threatening to delay peoples packages until everything is approved because people have been mean to him and his family.
For feths sake I absolutely agree there is no need or call for attacking peoples family, but he got told to stop using his personal FB account so many times it even got flagged to them.
But of course it has nothing to do with the months of deceit and lying he has been taking an active part in."
I don't use facebook, so can anyone please copy the relevant parts and/or tell us non-FB-users what is currently going on there?!? It's hard to stay up to date without a real/official communication channel... So we have to gather our infos from around the net ourselves.
What is frothers? I did a google search and got a bunch of crap on amazon pop up on the first page.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So now replying to stuff on Facebook with your personal account instead of creating a company account is innovative instead of just easier/lazy? In that case, I innovated last week when I put hot cocoa in my coffee because I was out of sugar and didn't want to drive to the grocery store. I call this reinvention of the wheel that I created "mocha".
Also, wasn't the previous meltdown also in the lead up to christmas when they shutdown the facebook account for dubious reasons after being criticized fairly? Can anyone post a link to the actual "attack" on the family members of Prodos employees?
It got deleted from Facebook, but I've put the gist up from page 225(ish) of this thread.
I basically called him a liar. There's copy/pastes of conversations that went on and a few screenshots etc. His family wasn't threatened at all throughout any of it.
2015/12/23 21:46:58
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
So to summarise, a member of liar's (or representative of company that has regularly lied) family sees a mail that mentions the word "liar." Liar (or representative of company that has regularly lied), gets upset presumably to divert attention from 1) being daft enough to be using a personal account for business, 2) as a way of deflecting flak from product that still hasn't gone anywhere 3) most recent fib of things being held up due to packaging, but which are shipped without branded packaging.
Is that it? really?
I know it's an emotive word, but it's not an inaccurate one. Perhaps if more people in society were held to account for it, things would be better all round. That's my Christmas thought. I have extra time for thinking, as we've no AvP to play, thanks to Prodos.
2015/12/23 22:16:35
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
thothkins wrote: That's my Christmas thought. I have extra time for thinking, as we've no AvP to play, thanks to Prodos.
Actually, Prodos claimed back in October of 2014 that they would have everything (that's a single wave shipping of ALL components) to us by Christmas (2014). Quite possibly their biggest and most obvious lie, it does mean that in fact this is now your second Christmas of not playing AvP.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/23 22:16:57
2015/12/23 23:44:44
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
I think that at this stage for many people there will be no Christmases of playing AvP regardless of having received their product, Prodod have destroyed their own reputation.
There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.
2015/12/23 23:57:40
Subject: Re:AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
It got deleted from Facebook, but I've put the gist up from page 225(ish) of this thread.
I basically called him a liar. There's copy/pastes of conversations that went on and a few screenshots etc. His family wasn't threatened at all throughout any of it.
Yeah, the stuff posted here I'm aware of but thanks (and to thotkins for the recap). I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything dastardly from outside of this hive of scum and villainy that we shamefully post on.
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
2015/12/24 00:41:23
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
The frothers avp page is nothing like the tony reidy /wargames factory one ...if jarek is worried about people having ago /moaning he should read them and take some lessons lol
2015/12/24 10:38:03
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
thothkins wrote: So to summarise, a member of liar's (or representative of company that has regularly lied) family sees a mail that mentions the word "liar." Liar (or representative of company that has regularly lied), gets upset presumably to divert attention from 1) being daft enough to be using a personal account for business, 2) as a way of deflecting flak from product that still hasn't gone anywhere 3) most recent fib of things being held up due to packaging, but which are shipped without branded packaging.
Is that it? really?
Apparently his son read it before he did and that constitutes a threat on his family.
Goes to show the kind of person who is running the company really.
2015/12/24 12:28:38
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
biggusdoggus wrote: Actually, Prodos claimed back in October of 2014 that they would have everything (that's a single wave shipping of ALL components) to us by Christmas (2014). Quite possibly their biggest and most obvious lie, it does mean that in fact this is now your second Christmas of not playing AvP.
Waaaah!
Sorry, I sound like Prodos hysterically overreacting to something on Facebook.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/24 12:29:42
2015/12/26 21:54:00
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
PomWallaby wrote: I didn't know Prodos held the Trademark for "Space Crusade"..
I only found the US Space Crusade trademark and its status was "ABANDONED-FAILURE TO RESPOND OR LATE RESPONSE 1/15/2015". But I don't know more, and would appreciate additional info!
Filing Date: 3/17/2014
The correspondent of the SPACE CRUSADE is JAROSLAW GRZEGORZ E; JAROSLAW GRZEGORZ E of 33 EDEN COURT; SERVICE@PRODOS.CO.UK, LEAMINGTON SPA, CV327PG UNITED KINGDOM .
Prodos games ltd towers !!!
Obviously the site of a international company !
Also as rob isn't part of them anymore shouldn't that be changed ?
And not for one moment would i state that ether rob lied or they are just using this as a proxie adress for tax and legal purposes in the uk and it has nothing to do with uk insolvency laws and the fact the actual stuff wouldn't be able to be collected by sheriffs. ...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/28 20:34:19
2015/12/26 23:14:02
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
But as per ced1106's post, the 'Space Crusade' trademark is registered to Prodos it seems and described as;
SPACE CRUSADE
By: Jaroslaw Grzegorz Ewertowski
Game equipment, namely, three-dimensional modular pieces for assembly to resemble miniature terrain; Gaming paper, namely, paper printed with regular grid and hexagon patterns for use in playing war games, role playing games and miniature games; Playing pieces in the nature of miniature action figures and toy model vehicles for use with table top hobby battle games in the nature of battle, war and skirmish games, and fantasy games
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/27 00:01:52
Apparantly to be one of Prodos' "Space Crusaders" :
"You must own enough painted Prodos Games material to run a game of Warzone Resurrection or AvP."
I expect most of us own enough AVP to run several games. I certainly do. Most of it is however unpainted as it is sitting in a warehouse, awaiting shipping, yet to be cast or yet to be boxed or simply does not exist depending on which (if any) of the lies is the truth!
2015/12/27 13:49:56
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
) but it was regarding the post that Jarek made implying people had threatened his family and were bullying him (sidenote: Jarek is very, very good at written English for the social media age - he posts that he is being harrassed and insulted while waving words like family and threats around the vicinity of the conversation, and lazy facebookers turn that into posting that backers are directly threatening his family members which he never corrects). I've copied his original posting into the spoiler below in case you missed it:
