Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game, Prodos loses license to AvP. p.266

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**CptJake**

Cool, maybe if they ever ever deliver what they owe me I'll eventually be able to purchase a set of board game rules that are worth actually using to go along with the board game!

I'm sure those rules will be available SOON!

**Rick_1138**

Having just read the latest Prodos KS update in my inbox, i am a tad confused.

How can prodos be making a game called 'space crusade' with Crusades in space miniatures.

Genuinely have no idea what the story is, but wont someone at GW be on a phone to a lawyer already? or is prodos allowed to use the name 'space crusade' for a miniatures based game???

**Nostromodamus**

Apparently Prodos holds the rights to it after GW evidently let it slip.

Still no word on my AvP stuff. Guess I'll be waiting until February

**Rick_1138**

Ah, that explains it. Bet GW will love that.

**CURNOW**

Dear jarak i would like to apply. Could you post me a application form ? And maybe as your at it pop my stuff in with it ? You know the stuff that i paid for 2yrs ago and has been sat gathering dust in your warehouse? The stuff that all you had to do was pick it out of tubs and put in a cardboard box ...the stuff that was waiting on retail packaging that you hve now decided it isn't going to have . The stuff that was waiting on card parts and because my pledge is for models only it doesn't include ? My pledge that you keep opening and deleting my real name then saying its my fault because my pledge is open and doesn't have my name ? The pledge that only includes stuff thats been signed off since the beginning of new year ? ....oh maybe just leave it till feb cos tbh i dont think i will ever paint these figs as ive grown to slowly hate them and my plans for a huge theamed tablebwith 100s of xenos and marines has now been spent on something more tangible.

**Ruglud**

For those who haven't seen / received the latest update:

Prodos Games Ltd says:

Hi there, end of year update.
Prodos Games team would like to with you a Happy New Year 2016.

Really sorry for long update.

PRODOS GAMES Manufacturing team picture: http://imgur.com/fWLjf6m

Shipping:

3 months ago we have set up a "saving" account to secure cash for shipping 2nd and 3rd wave of AvP. We have some really exciting news. Our sales team has really done an extremely good on sales of Prodos games products and casting services in the past 3 months and we have secured 42K+ GBP for Wave shipping (see attached picture http://imgur.com/l6P2PyZ ). This only means that we have in plans to ship out ALL KS items by end of January. We will also set up an email account for queries regarding only the KS - KS@prodosgames.com, this email will be active from mid February. IF you have not received your rewards by END February please contact us immediately on the email above.

A small BUG.

We have found a small issue with pledge manager.. The pledge manager was linked to our online shop and run on the same platform, if a KS backer have made any purchase in our shop (Warzone for instance) the PM in some cases marked off KS pledge as shipped and shop purchase tracking number was recorded in KS box as well. This have been now resolved. However if you plan to make any purchases in our shop or you have done it in last week or so please emial us on service@prodos.co.uk, we will check every individual case. I hope my words wont get twisted around, but so security (to make sure that we can actually provide you with KS tracking number) if you made any purchase in our shop and if you have not shipped your KS rewards, we will have to do it in one parcel with one tracking number (shop order + KS rewards). At this stage this is the only solution without interfering into source code of PM... the last thing we need at this stage is total fallout with PM.

Prodos Games LTD

Last year for Prodos was like a ride on roller coaster. Although, we are ashamed of decisions we have made, like getting retail out and so on (to some degree we had no option anyway) in a long run our it shows that the decisions we have made secured KS and Prodos Games future.

Prodos Games in now 30 employees we are providing services for many companies, some of you may even have models made by us not even knowing that Prodos was the manufacturer, 12 KS run by other companies went through our hands, either in the form of 3D sculpting, 3d Printing or casting. In last 6 months (we track numbers for last 6 months only) we have made 109237 sprues of miniatures for external customers! That's 100k sprues!

We totally understand that for many of you Prodos is the worse company that you could have a pleasure to deal with, frankly, a lot, and I mean a lot of delays where due to lack of our experience with the big boys and 3rd party delays that affect us personally and Prodos.

What we can assure that the product you will receive is the top quality in terms of casting as well as design- we are a bunch of engineers and the quality for us is the top goal.

I said many times that for us AvP KS was like an open wound, that was bleeding out us slowly, and only what we could do last year was to put some plasters to reduce the bleeding... now, we are in the stage of stitches that stop the bleeding however we are aware that AVP KS scar will stay for ever on Prodos Games face.
The root cause of all issues was the decision to go KS with this project. Looking back we should get it out slowly, starting with a board game and then add more.. but, we have a new future, a KS free future, this decision for us, in a long term, I believe is the best decision we could make. We know, for fact, how difficult is to run a KS, we know how many companies must go from KS to KS to fulfil previous commitments and we know how many companies are struggling because we have been helping them out.
So no-KS projects are the future for us.

New NO-KS Projects.

We are happy to announced that in February we are releasing a new line of miniatures called Space Crusaders. We have already 60 models designed, cast and all going through painting at this stage, this will follow with Space Crusade Board Game mid year... and the range of the models will be increased to 120 by the end of 2016. Sign up for a newsletter in our shop for more information if you are interested.

In May+, Prodos is releasing Warzone 2.0 and new faction Illian. Some really new innovative Wargaming solutions will be put in place.

June/July is a new add to AvP Board Game (stand alone game + expansion to the current game, with additional rules) and focus will be put on war-gaming side of the AvP (more models)

AvP range also will expand. We have in plans to get out another 15 types of models, 5 for each faction! (collecting references). And if plastic work out for us we will have as well Dropship as well.

Hope that one day we can forget the issues we have been going through with AvP KS and Prodos will become your favourite company. We will work very very hard to regain your trust and KS backers will always have a spot in our hart regardless of personal attack or other issues.
As long as Prodos exist we are ready to give you, from mid year once the facility is developed, a lifetime 5% off on our products sold via Prodos Games webstore.

Thanks and once again a happy New Year 2016.

**Nostromodamus**

Well hopefully Prodos has more success in future. Glad to hear there is enough money to ship all rewards, I look forward to seeing mine show up at some point.

Has there been any word on the Wargame rules? I pledged for the book and haven't heard much about it until this statement about middle of next year. Is that when I will receive my book?

**CptJake**

Alex C wrote:

Has there been any word on the Wargame rules? I pledged for the book and haven't heard much about it until this statement about middle of next year. Is that when I will receive my book?

From their update:

Jarek as Prodos wrote:This only means that we have in plans to ship out ALL KS items by end of January.

Clearly the books are printed and bing packed as I type this. No way ALL KS items can be translated another way, right?

So the 3d Terrain, Predator tiles, clear/cloaked minis, hard cover rulebook, alternate (not boxed game version) marines, the marine sergeant and so on will be included in the January shipment.

Or maybe Jarek is setting himself up to be called less than honest again...

Can't wait to hear the whining when he is called out on it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, is that as of yet un-named shipper in the US still sitting on the boxed games? If so, are you (Prodos) shipping them all the rest of the stuff in time for them to deliver our packages by this February deadline?

Or will they be sending our boxed games ASAP while Prodos ships all our add ons directly?

Or is everything shipping directly from Prodos (and this other shipper and the tales that they had our boxed games just a myth)?

We have not gotten much clarity on this.

**Nostromodamus**

For those who received product already, what mail carrier was used?

Postal service? UPS? Fedex? DHL?

**Ruglud**

My delivery was via UPS

**CURNOW**

So if i order something from the prodos store tonight as a backer they will have to send my pledge out with that order ? ? ....worth a go

**Nostromodamus**

CURNOW wrote:
So if i order something from the prodos store tonight as a backer they will have to send my pledge out with that order ? ? ....worth a go

I read it as they will ship both in one package, not necessarily that you will get your KS stuff any earlier, might be that your retail order gets held back.

**CURNOW**

Yeah but under EU law they only have 28days to deliver it to you ....so maybe get it faster but then it would involve giving more money to them and im not going to do that

**ced1106**

Prodos Games in now 30 employees we are providing services for many companies, some of you may even have models made by us not even knowing that Prodos was the manufacturer, 12 KS run by other companies went through our hands, either in the form of 3D sculpting, 3d Printing or casting. In last 6 months (we track numbers for last 6 months only) we have made 109237 sprues of miniatures for external customers! That's 100k sprues!

So, thanks to Alien Assimilation Host and AvP, I'll add another KS guideline: Don't back a company that makes mini's for other companies.

I don't get it with the US Space Crusaders trademark, although Prodos is in the UK. The status is "ABANDONED-FAILURE TO RESPOND OR LATE RESPONSE 1/15/2015".

Does Prodos have the trademark somewhere (eg. UK, Poland, EU?) so have some sort of rights to put out their own SC game? Someone tell Dionisius!

**CURNOW**

Thats the thing they aren't in the uk . According to their own records all they have registered in the uk as a business address is a small one bedroom flat in a residential area . (Probably robs ) but then they also state that he isn't a partner anymore . So i think they are just paying him so they can keep the legal foothold in the uk to be classed as a uk firm even tho 100% of their holdings and staff are poland based .

**WFG DRMR**

CURNOW wrote:
Thats the thing they aren't in the uk . According to their own records all they have registered in the uk as a business address is a small one bedroom flat in a residential area . (Probably robs ) but then they also state that he isn't a partner anymore . So i think they are just paying him so they can keep the legal foothold in the uk to be classed as a uk firm even tho 100% of their holdings and staff are poland based .

Please leave Rob out of this. He is no longer anything to do with Prodos. I can confirm that this is not his home, but it was (approx 2 years ago) the UK abode of one of the current directors of Prodos Games. There are 2 directors of Prodos UK, both live in Poland (like 100% of employees) - the UK involvement (team) have been systematically removed, via one means or another.

**richred_uk**

CURNOW wrote:
Thats the thing they aren't in the uk . According to their own records all they have registered in the uk as a business address is a small one bedroom flat in a residential area . (Probably robs ) but then they also state that he isn't a partner anymore . So i think they are just paying him so they can keep the legal foothold in the uk to be classed as a uk firm even tho 100% of their holdings and staff are poland based .

I'm assuming that the address you are referring to is the Eden Court one - that isn't their company registered address - I think it's one that Jarek used for the trademark application in 2013 (?). The registered address is: Warwick Business Centre Hawkes Drive, Heathcote Industrial Estate, Warwick, CV34 6LX. I believe that this is just a mail box - the Warwick Business Centre website shows that it is multiple offices for small companies and I think they provide mail box services so that you can register a company there - Prodos dont show on the current office tenants list - http://www.warwickbusinesscentre.co.uk/floorplans.html.

You can get the registered company address here: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08373380

The Prodos website now shows the Warwick Business Centre address as their place of business, but it used to show "Unit 1 Victoria Business Centre, Neilston Street, Leamington Spa, Warwickshire CV31 2AZ" and you may find this address elsewhere on the web, but I believe that this is no longer an active address for them.

**Alpharius**

WFG DRMR wrote:
CURNOW wrote:
Thats the thing they aren't in the uk . According to their own records all they have registered in the uk as a business address is a small one bedroom flat in a residential area . (Probably robs ) but then they also state that he isn't a partner anymore . So i think they are just paying him so they can keep the legal foothold in the uk to be classed as a uk firm even tho 100% of their holdings and staff are poland based .

Please leave Rob out of this. He is no longer anything to do with Prodos. I can confirm that this is not his home, but it was (approx 2 years ago) the UK abode of one of the current directors of Prodos Games. There are 2 directors of Prodos UK, both live in Poland (like 100% of employees) - the UK involvement (team) have been systematically removed, via one means or another.

Yikes!

Sounds ominous...

Anyway, I look forward to the day when all pledges have finally been shipped and received.

By most accounts the miniatures themselves are quite nice and most will certainly be happy with them...

**Pacific**

Rick_1138 wrote:
Having just read the latest Prodos KS update in my inbox, i am a tad confused.

How can prodos be making a game called 'space crusade' with Crusades in space miniatures.

Genuinely have no idea what the story is, but wont someone at GW be on a phone to a lawyer already? or is prodos allowed to use the name 'space crusade' for a miniatures based game???

On a side note can I ask where you heard about the Space Crusade game?

**CURNOW**

Its in the email further up the page and they've changed the facebook banner to a space crusade one .

**Pacific**

Thanks for that.

Just read about the plastic drop-ship as well! Would love to get my hands on one of those.

The wargames rules seem like a nice idea, but not sure how possible its going to be to get the 'feel' of the movies into a wargame. How do you get the predators moving about the board secretly, and only hunting according to their own code? Or the aliens coming out from absolutely no-where, but utterly lethal?

As much as I like the miniature boardgame miniatures the game itself feels more like a computer game, rather than making you feel like you're playing the game of the movies. I'm not sure if its possible to trap that into a game to be honest, and some stuff (being killed by a facehugger then another fully grown warrior-type bursting out and rushing into play) is ridiculously canon-breaking.

**crazy_cat**

Alex C wrote:
For those who received product already, what mail carrier was used?

Postal service? UPS? Fedex? DHL?

I picked mine up in person and carried the (very heavy) box back from Dragonmeet as I had no reason to believe they were actually going to ship me anything

**angelofvengeance**

For us Brits, I think most/all packages were delivered by UPS

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pacific wrote:

As much as I like the miniature boardgame miniatures the game itself feels more like a computer game, rather than making you feel like you're playing the game of the movies. I'm not sure if its possible to trap that into a game to be honest, and some stuff (being killed by a facehugger then another fully grown warrior-type bursting out and rushing into play) is ridiculously canon-breaking.

I have barely touched mine, mainly cause it sickens me to look at it. This Kickstarter has been a complete farce, in my opinion. I unboxed it all, to find that the clips are so bloody snug, that when you try to slot them in(gently), it tears the facings of the card. The models are nice and that's about the only positive thing I have to say about it.

**CURNOW**

Im yet to see a single thing .serves me right for going in for loads .

**Dark Severance**

angelofvengeance wrote:
I unboxed it all, to find that the clips are so bloody snug, that when you try to slot them in(gently), it tears the facings of the card.

From my experience and what I've learned with dealing with a lot of 'card' terrain like Battle Systems that first test dry fit. If the dry fit is too snug, don't force it, trim the card with a blade. Then once the fit is good seal with superglue to make it firm and hard like plastic, then you never have to worry about tearing. It also greatly increases the life of the boards. I do these with my cardboard tokens as well from any board game these days. With X-Wing I highlighted the edges first with a paint sharpie, then sealed them with superglue so they look really nice.

**Grumpae**

CURNOW wrote:
Im yet to see a single thing .serves me right for going in for loads .

You're not alone! I feel the same way every time I hear anything about this project. How much did I spend on this again. Head shake, sigh, depression ensues.

**angelofvengeance**

Dark Severance wrote:
angelofvengeance wrote:
I unboxed it all, to find that the clips are so bloody snug, that when you try to slot them in(gently), it tears the facings of the card.
From my experience and what I've learned with dealing with a lot of 'card' terrain like Battle Systems that first test dry fit. If the dry fit is too snug, don't force it, trim the card with a blade. Then once the fit is good seal with superglue to make it firm and hard like plastic, then you never have to worry about tearing. It also greatly increases the life of the boards. I do these with my cardboard tokens as well from any board game these days. With X-Wing I highlighted the edges first with a paint sharpie, then sealed them with superglue so they look really nice.

These aren't the same as Battle Systems. These are more like Space Hulk doors except there's no fancy plastic clip. It's a gakky round piece of black plastic, with a slot on top of it for the card to go in. There's no trimming involved. Either the slot is too narrow for the card, or the card is too thick for the slot.

**Ruglud**

I de-carded (is that a word?) all my pieces (one box) yesterday and got to say that the card quality is as good as the '09 Space Hulk with the pieces cleanly punched and easy to remove without any tears as can happen. The artwork on the 'green' side is well done, the 'red' side though is really dark and difficult to make out the details. Worse though, the design is all so damned repetitive.... Sheets of the same corridors over and over and over...

Haven't tried fitting the door holders yet, will take care when / if I do...

**adlard.matthew**

Dark Severance wrote:
From my experience and what I've learned with dealing with a lot of 'card' terrain like Battle Systems that first test dry fit. If the dry fit is too snug, don't force it, trim the card with a blade. Then once the fit is good seal with superglue to make it firm and hard like plastic, then you never have to worry about tearing. It also greatly increases the life of the boards. I do these with my cardboard tokens as well from any board game these days. With X-Wing I highlighted the edges first with a paint sharpie, then sealed them with superglue so they look really nice.

That idea is inspired will try that.

How do you get the predators moving about the board secretly, and only hunting according to their own code? Or the aliens coming out from absolutely no-where, but utterly lethal?

Pacific The wargames rules seem like a nice idea, but not sure how possible its going to be to get the 'feel' of the movies into a wargame. How do you get the predators moving about the board secretly, and only hunting according to their own code? Or the aliens coming out from absolutely no-where, but utterly lethal?

In the Kryomek wargame you had counters both representing actual monsters and blank ones, so the controlling player could move tokens around and it created tension, they could try that option with the Preds, as well as Trophy taking. Would give some feel, but they could go with the books and graphic novels style of games.

**timd**

angelofvengeance wrote:

These aren't the same as Battle Systems. These are more like Space Hulk doors except there's no fancy plastic clip. It's a gakky round piece of black plastic, with a slot on top of it for the card to go in. There's no trimming involved. Either the slot is too narrow for the card, or the card is too thick for the slot.

That's odd. My doors fit quite nicely into the plastic holders. Do you have an accurate way to measure the thickness of the door card (calipers)?

Got the infants and stalkers mostly painted for our first game on Saturday. Still need to do a bit of detail and something with the bases... (BTW I prefer chamfered bases.)