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Which one, zedmeister? There've been at least two Zug models to date.

yeah,
All teams (except Slaan) not in DeathZone are now available in this free PDF.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/blood_bowl/teams_of_legend_en.pdf

Huzzah!

Panic...

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
All teams (except Slaan) not in DeathZone are now available in this free PDF.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/blood_bowl/teams_of_legend_en.pdf

Huzzah!

Panic...

Modern GW just keeps winning.

Something I meant to ask to those who have picked up Death Zone already - is Morg 'N' Thorg still restricted to Human and Orcs as a Star Player in it? I could've sworn he had a wider range of teams he'd play for in the last edition.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
All teams (except Slaan) not in DeathZone are now available in this free PDF.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/blood_bowl/teams_of_legend_en.pdf

Huzzah!

Panic...

Modern GW just keeps winning.

All of this was already available for free on the web in a PDF... It's just that barely anyone played Blood Bowl.

There is sort of a whiff of 'Emperor's New Clothes' about the re-release of BB but then again, I don't think it could have been otherwise; the consternation had there been wholesale rules changes would have been immense.

Still think the scale creep is a dick move though.

 Kirasu wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
All teams (except Slaan) not in DeathZone are now available in this free PDF.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/blood_bowl/teams_of_legend_en.pdf

Huzzah!

Panic...

Modern GW just keeps winning.

All of this was already available for free on the web in a PDF... It's just that barely anyone played Blood Bowl.

Over 900 players at the world Championship... for a game in our hobby, that isn't "barely anyone". Can you name any other single game event that gets even close?

 filbert wrote:

Still think the scale creep is a dick move though.

Why is updating the scale so that it matches all of the other ranges a dick move?

Especially for stuff like Orcs where the old Orcs look nothing like the current ones.

Is the scale creep caused by people kitbashing teams a problem?

You really think that they should have made the models worse just to accommodate people that weren't going to buy any models because they already have them?

Scale creep?

It's hardly a dick move at all. You can easily use the old boards, thinks fit. The slight size increase is a great thing, so many more models are viable with a bigger base size.

GW have bent over backwards to make sure this release doesn't piss off the fanbase, the NAF have been involved heavily with rules etc.

It seems that people will moan about anything if it's GW.

angryboy2k wrote:

 CURNOW wrote:
The whole line .

Wow, that's shocking. This looked like it was heralding a series of new releases. I was expecting it to become a permanent fixture on game shop shelves.

Think I said something about them not being permanent shop line and was shot down. "No way GW would do that to the most anticipiated release ever!" or to that effect was said.

But this is not core game(AOS/40k). It's specialist game. Seen those much in stores lately? Epic? Necromunda? Mordheim?

Few months on stores, then to direct only. Most sales happen on first few months anyway so unless they are going to have REALLY aggressive new releases for BB there's not even much incentive to have it on store. Most of sales from new big box has been got so to support trickle of new teams here and there isn't worth the store space(which btw costs money for GW).

Scott-S6 wrote:

 filbert wrote:

Still think the scale creep is a dick move though.

Why is updating the scale so that it matches all of the other ranges a dick move?

Especially for stuff like Orcs where the old Orcs look nothing like the current ones.

Is the scale creep caused by people kitbashing teams a problem?

You really think that they should have made the models worse just to accommodate people that weren't going to buy any models because they already have them?

Thebiggesthat wrote:Scale creep?

It's hardly a dick move at all. You can easily use the old boards, thinks fit. The slight size increase is a great thing, so many more models are viable with a bigger base size.

GW have bent over backwards to make sure this release doesn't piss off the fanbase, the NAF have been involved heavily with rules etc.

It seems that people will moan about anything if it's GW.

Because the scale increase automatically invalidates every single existing team, both GW and third party, that exist out there. Because you won't be able to mix the new with the old. GW could quite easily have kept to the same scale - it wouldn't have made the models worse or less good looking (and on a slight tangent, I really must rail against this prevalent opinion that making things bigger is somehow better, we are, after all, playing with 'miniatures' - part of the skill is in the miniaturization of the sculpt.). It strikes me that the only reason that GW made the new models out of scale was as an attempt to get people to buy new stuff. I don't blame them for that; they are, after all, in the business of selling miniatures - I just happen to think it is a crappy way of generating sales.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
All teams (except Slaan) not in DeathZone are now available in this free PDF.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/blood_bowl/teams_of_legend_en.pdf

Huzzah!

Panic...

Modern GW just keeps winning.

Old bad GW had the rulebook, expansions and all teams for free PDF for years. So they currently give you less than they used to.

 filbert wrote:
Because the scale increase automatically invalidates every single existing team, both GW and third party, that exist out there.

I very much doubt those teams go out of existance. And I doubt many will be mixing&matching models from different producers in same team anyway. 16 players so generally people will just get all in one go. New models will go to new team rather than existing.

FB/40k players have been dealing with increasing scale for decades. Funny thing hasn't stopped them before and you still see old smaller models. And that's with games where different sized models actually offer in game benefit unlike blood bowl...

The last BB miniatures they released were what? 20 years ago?

I don't really think it's a dick move to make these a tiny bit bigger :/

I got all my stuff together yesterday and it's all really great stuff. My only sadness is not having any elf team in plastic, but then the resin will be superior anyway I guess.

The d3 and choose for the SPP is quite the (welcome) change. Going to make it much easier to level Black Orcs And similar things now

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=357582577940856&id=219720111727104

Well, Sports Fans, the results are in! Andy Hewitt's Wood Elf Team "The Leap of Faith" won overall at the Bugman's Full Beard Cup, which we streamed live from Warhammer World this weekend. Congratulations to Andy, who featured in both Game 4 & 5 today on the live feed. If you want to watch the games for yourself, follow this link and click on 'videos' at the top. https://www.twitch.tv/warhammercommunitytv

Well, I'll play the Chaos team with Chaos warriors and Beastmen. They are plastic and can all be based on 32 mm.
Not the best team in the game, certainly challenging.

 filbert wrote:
Because the scale increase automatically invalidates every single existing team, both GW and third party, that exist out there. Because you won't be able to mix the new with the old.

Huh?
It doesn't. In any way.

I'm personally not fond of the scale creep, for purely aesthetic purposes though (bigger isn't necessarily better). There's however nothing stopping a team of new GW BB models facing a team of old GW or 3rd party models.

 filbert wrote:

Because the scale increase automatically invalidates every single existing team, both GW and third party, that exist out there.

False

 filbert wrote:

Because you won't be able to mix the new with the old.

False

Basically no-one who actually plays the game will care if you're using classic minis or not, or if they do it will mostly be to the extent of saying "cool! I've not seen those before" - I personally know several folk who are just buying the "winter" pitch, and/or the rules download in the app and continuing to use their old teams regardless.

Rose is right. There is nothing that will be invalidated because of the new base size.
Moreover, mixing seems perfectly fine.

 filbert wrote:

Because the scale increase automatically invalidates every single existing team, both GW and third party, that exist out there. Because you won't be able to mix the new with the old.

You'd better tell all of the people who have kitbashed teams or players from current models that they're doing it wrong and those slightly larger models cannot be mixed with old Blood Bowl sized minis because it invalidates them.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:

Liking some of the touches with the race set up, four Elf teams is great, can't wait to see them turn up over at Forgeworld.. and one of my main asks before the game launched over on the Blood Bowl facebook page, regarding Witch Elves still being in the game, is confirmed, with the added bonus the Dark Elf Star Player is a Witch Elf as well.

Why wouldn't witch elves exist? It would be the biggest change of the entire release should they remove witch elves. The only changes so far are skaven runner got an additional skill and some minor changes in cost of a few players (+-10'000). Some changes to money, league play and MVP. And possibly Morgn'n'Thorg lost a lot of teams he can play for.

Edit: Well, more changes too like special event cards and the pitch has a 1 trapdoor square on each half with unknown usage.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 filbert wrote:

Because the scale increase automatically invalidates every single existing team, both GW and third party, that exist out there. Because you won't be able to mix the new with the old.

You'd better tell all of the people who have kitbashed teams or players from current models that they're doing it wrong and those slightly larger models cannot be mixed with old Blood Bowl sized minis because it invalidates them.

Fantastic strawman. I didn't mention anything about kitbashing and it has nothing to do with what I am saying. Nor am I saying that you can't have an old team play a new team - I am merely suggesting that it will be hard, and in most cases will look crap where new models are mixed with old. We have seen the same thing in 40K and Fantasy. How many old style Terminator models do you see mixed in with new style ones? Not because the aesthetic has changed (and in fact, for Terminators, old and new are very similar) but because the old ones look stupid and out of scale when mixed with new. It is the same case here; for those of us who may have wanted to use the opportunity of newly released models to bolster and augment existing teams now cannot as the scale difference prohibits it. Again, I see no reason why GW has done this other than to drive sales - fair enough, that is what they exist as a business for, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. Again, just because it is going on in 40K and Fantasy as well doesn't mean one has to like it.

The other side of it is those of us with custom pitches as well. I have a beautifully made custom BB pitch (not made by me, I hasten to add but by another very talented chap) but there is no way that new models will fit comfortably on it (in point of fact, the old BB pitches were a bit of a squeeze even with 28mm bases).


Edit: Actually, I should clarify that for BB it isn't that much of a big deal, given that there may only be one or two new models that I might integrate. What concerns me is that GW will use it in the rest of their SG revamp. So if/when Epic relaunches, and the whole new line of models are 15mm or whatever they are rumoured to be, again, that invalidates the old stuff. And that will be a problem, because people will naturally want to bolster their old armies.

 filbert wrote:
I am merely suggesting that it will be hard, and in most cases will look crap where new models are mixed with old. We have seen the same thing in 40K and Fantasy. How many old style Terminator models do you see mixed in with new style ones? Not because the aesthetic has changed (and in fact, for Terminators, old and new are very similar) but because the old ones look stupid and out of scale when mixed with new. It is the same case here; for those of us who may have wanted to use the opportunity of newly released models to bolster and augment existing teams now cannot as the scale difference prohibits it.

That's not the same issue though.

The different terminator sculpts do look weird if mixed together in the same army, and mixing in new BB models together with old ones in the same team will look off as well I agree. And that is part of why I'm not fond of the scale creep either,

But that doesn't invalidate any existing models however. Any team I buy from Black Scorpion, Comixininos, Impact etc, is just as valid today as they were before GW's relaunch of BB. It might look a bit weird if one team is in a slightly larger scale than another, but that's nothing new. That's been the case for years and years due to people using models from different manufacturers and eras. As long as the teams are internally consistent, there's no problem.

In terms of epic etc, exactly what span of time do your investment in a team reasonably covers you for?

Do you really think after 10 or 20 years they should be having to think about back compatibility?

Obviously 3rd party are not their concern at all.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

Old bad GW had the rulebook, expansions and all teams for free PDF for years. So they currently give you less than they used to.

Not when blood bowl had just been released they didn't.

Also, no, "old bad GW" didn't have the blood bowl, or any other specialist games rules, up on the site; it was in fact the removal of same that signaled their transition from older, better GW and heralded the Low Times.

 filbert wrote:


Because the scale increase automatically invalidates every single existing team, both GW and third party, that exist out there. Because you won't be able to mix the new with the old. It strikes me that the only reason that GW made the new models out of scale was as an attempt to get people to buy new stuff. I don't blame them for that; they are, after all, in the business of selling miniatures - I just happen to think it is a crappy way of generating sales.

I for one will still be playing with my Impact Resin teams and the teams that I've converted from AoS and Warhammer models. There are going to continue to be a heck of a lot of events that aren't run by GW, so simmer down. Hell... I'll still play my dinky 3rd edition orks that are lovingly painted in a poop and piss paint scheme!

https://www.facebook.com/pg/GWWarhammerWorld/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1380044192015057


pics from the BB event this weekend.

 filbert wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 filbert wrote:

Because the scale increase automatically invalidates every single existing team, both GW and third party, that exist out there. Because you won't be able to mix the new with the old.

You'd better tell all of the people who have kitbashed teams or players from current models that they're doing it wrong and those slightly larger models cannot be mixed with old Blood Bowl sized minis because it invalidates them.

Fantastic strawman. I didn't mention anything about kitbashing and it has nothing to do with what I am saying. Nor am I saying that you can't have an old team play a new team - I am merely suggesting that it will be hard, and in most cases will look crap where new models are mixed with old. We have seen the same thing in 40K and Fantasy. How many old style Terminator models do you see mixed in with new style ones? Not because the aesthetic has changed (and in fact, for Terminators, old and new are very similar) but because the old ones look stupid and out of scale when mixed with new. It is the same case here; for those of us who may have wanted to use the opportunity of newly released models to bolster and augment existing teams now cannot as the scale difference prohibits it. Again, I see no reason why GW has done this other than to drive sales - fair enough, that is what they exist as a business for, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. Again, just because it is going on in 40K and Fantasy as well doesn't mean one has to like it.

The other side of it is those of us with custom pitches as well. I have a beautifully made custom BB pitch (not made by me, I hasten to add but by another very talented chap) but there is no way that new models will fit comfortably on it (in point of fact, the old BB pitches were a bit of a squeeze even with 28mm bases).


Edit: Actually, I should clarify that for BB it isn't that much of a big deal, given that there may only be one or two new models that I might integrate. What concerns me is that GW will use it in the rest of their SG revamp. So if/when Epic relaunches, and the whole new line of models are 15mm or whatever they are rumoured to be, again, that invalidates the old stuff. And that will be a problem, because people will naturally want to bolster their old armies.

Much more likely is that they have upped the scale because they did it with all the rest of their miniatures, and that they did that because they think it looks good, just like the rest of the industry is going bigger and bigger. Most new games are doing GW scale or bigger, even going up to 35-40mm in some cases. When was the last time you saw a new 25mm game? Bigger models are easier on the eyes, can have more detail and are easier to paint. It doesn't really have to be more complicated than that... upping scale by a couple of mm would be a very roundabout way to try to increase sales of new models. When they changed from 25mm to 32mm bases and were asked why, their reason was that some designer had thought it would look better and everyone agreed, so they did it. No reason why that wouldn't be true.

And the new Epic will be 8mm.

I must admit, I think changing the scale to drive more sales is a bit crap.

Its small changes like this that mount up and end up with upset players and lost custom.

There are many other ways that GW could increase revenue without having to invalidate peoples old collections and models.

Although it is a bit crap that a blitzer is now the size of an old black orc, the problem will be more evident in the upcoming Epic releases than it will in BB, as filbert says.