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I find it easier to just lay models down than keep track of tokens. Tokens that fit in the hole on the base sound nice but realistically I think they'd just be fiddly, maybe I just have chunky hands but I find shoving the ball in to that hole on a painted model that I'm trying not to damage is more hassle than it's worth. I just rest the ball on the base, which is easier now that the bases are 32mm instead of 25mm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thargrim wrote:
Right now I don't have any issues placing the models face down/face up. But once they are painted that becomes a whole different issue.

THat's why you get a pitch made from mousemat material.

Ernster wrote:
You can use colored plastic base covers like Cmon for the heros in Massive Darkness or other games. If produced they can even say stunned and such. These would prevent the "Balloons" from falling out of holes.

The problem I have with that is the models would still be upright and cause me to make mistakes of who has a tackle zone on helping out. I'd rather have tokens, but never had a problem with laying down my models (except space on the board)

@Thephony, just an idea. One can find fault with any of the listed suggestions. Tokens take up space lying them down takes up space as well.

Im confident that people will find away to overcome the obstacle.

I don't know if people are trolliing here about laying figures down and on their backs...Mean to say, in all the years I've been playing this game(and to be clear, I've played since BB was first released) I've NEVER played in leagues and heard someone racking their brains with the problem of laying figures down. Its really a non issue...

 bound for glory wrote:
I don't know if people are trolliing here about laying figures down and on their backs...Mean to say, in all the years I've been playing this game(and to be clear, I've played since BB was first released) I've NEVER played in leagues and heard someone racking their brains with the problem of laying figures down. Its really a non issue...

Space is an issue though. I've played with coaches who use tokens to represent fallen Big Guys.

 bound for glory wrote:
I don't know if people are trolliing here about laying figures down and on their backs...Mean to say, in all the years I've been playing this game(and to be clear, I've played since BB was first released) I've NEVER played in leagues and heard someone racking their brains with the problem of laying figures down. Its really a non issue...

I've been playing just as long and agree for the most part, though have lost count of the number of times I've seen standing players been knocked over by some oaf trying to lay down, turn over and then stand up their player.

 bound for glory wrote:
I don't know if people are trolliing here about laying figures down and on their backs...Mean to say, in all the years I've been playing this game(and to be clear, I've played since BB was first released) I've NEVER played in leagues and heard someone racking their brains with the problem of laying figures down. Its really a non issue...

Yeah, I was seeing it more as people messing up paint jobs, but seriously a good primer and a good sealer fix 99% of that problem. I've used some 3rd party figs that are large and cause issue when laying them down, but we have never had a squabble over it or even a heated debate which squares what was in.

 feeder wrote:
I can't imagine a situation where clearly identified tokens would not be allowed to represent prone or stunned models., especially Big Guys.

I agree acceptance is higher for bigger models.

For me, the size of the model is not the point at all. It is wether the model is painted or not, so for me, this applies to all models. In my very limited experience, this was an issue for some players, which I can understand if they're not used to it.

 bound for glory wrote:
I don't know if people are trolliing here about laying figures down and on their backs...Mean to say, in all the years I've been playing this game(and to be clear, I've played since BB was first released) I've NEVER played in leagues and heard someone racking their brains with the problem of laying figures down. Its really a non issue...

Would you repaint all the noses of my elf team then? They chipped after a single day. After playing warmachine, laying down models is just something of the past.

Speaking of paint, it is just lovely how the human team has these small scratches, dents and imperfections in the armor. Give it a wash and it almost paints itself!

No Stun specific tokens, but Muse on Minis and others make Knockdown tokens for Warmachine and Guild Ball.

Baxx wrote:

Would you repaint all the noses of my elf team then? They chipped after a single day. After playing warmachine, laying down models is just something of the past.

Maybe invest in some varnish?

Ive been laying BB models down since 1990, models get damaged, thats a part of gaming where models are touched on a regular basis but you can mitigate that damage with a couple of good layers of quality varnish and also by having a good undercoat.

standing models with 'knocked down' markers? Pfft, lay those suckers down like a man and stop being so prissy about the paint. if you want to have display quality models then put them on display

 ekwatts wrote:
But I'm really loving the dwarves. Not keen on the floating slayers, but other than that, the miniatures themselves look fantastic. I don't really see why anyone is bothered by the dynamism? They might be stoic hard-asses, but that doesn't mean they don't move about. I'm sure beating the living daylights out of the opposing team and occasionally trying to score some touchdowns requires some physicality. The criticisms seem a bit daft. Again, floating slayers are a bit "eehhhhhh" but the rest look excellent.

See lord of the rings. See how Gimli moves differently to Legolas? No matter what can you imagine Gimli dancing around like Legolas?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MangoMadness wrote:
Ive been laying BB models down since 1990, models get damaged, thats a part of gaming where models are touched on a regular basis but you can mitigate that damage with a couple of good layers of quality varnish and also by having a good undercoat.

Goal isn't mitigate. Goal is to remove problem completely.

That's one reason why the AOS "measure from model" rather than "measure from base" has got to be one of the most STUPID rules ever invented. Lack of points pales in comparison. With some models it would be literally impossible to attack other without putting model over other models base.

Nobody, NOBODY puts model over my base. That is just asking for paint damage and it's not fun enough to fix it that I would allow anybody to do something as silly as put model over my models base.

But you could freeze frame Gimli in a pose that looks similar to these dwarfs - even the Slayer

Baxx wrote:

 feeder wrote:
I can't imagine a situation where clearly identified tokens would not be allowed to represent prone or stunned models., especially Big Guys.

I agree acceptance is higher for bigger models.

For me, the size of the model is not the point at all. It is wether the model is painted or not, so for me, this applies to all models. In my very limited experience, this was an issue for some players, which I can understand if they're not used to it.

 bound for glory wrote:
I don't know if people are trolliing here about laying figures down and on their backs...Mean to say, in all the years I've been playing this game(and to be clear, I've played since BB was first released) I've NEVER played in leagues and heard someone racking their brains with the problem of laying figures down. Its really a non issue...

Would you repaint all the noses of my elf team then? They chipped after a single day. After playing warmachine, laying down models is just something of the past.

Speaking of paint, it is just lovely how the human team has these small scratches, dents and imperfections in the armor. Give it a wash and it almost paints itself!

MangoMadness wrote:

Baxx wrote:

Would you repaint all the noses of my elf team then? They chipped after a single day. After playing warmachine, laying down models is just something of the past.

Maybe invest in some varnish?

Ive been laying BB models down since 1990, models get damaged, thats a part of gaming where models are touched on a regular basis but you can mitigate that damage with a couple of good layers of quality varnish and also by having a good undercoat.

standing models with 'knocked down' markers? Pfft, lay those suckers down like a man and stop being so prissy about the paint. if you want to have display quality models then put them on display

tneva82 wrote:

 MangoMadness wrote:
Ive been laying BB models down since 1990, models get damaged, thats a part of gaming where models are touched on a regular basis but you can mitigate that damage with a couple of good layers of quality varnish and also by having a good undercoat.

Goal isn't mitigate. Goal is to remove problem completely.

That's one reason why the AOS "measure from model" rather than "measure from base" has got to be one of the most STUPID rules ever invented. Lack of points pales in comparison. With some models it would be literally impossible to attack other without putting model over other models base.

Nobody, NOBODY puts model over my base. That is just asking for paint damage and it's not fun enough to fix it that I would allow anybody to do something as silly as put model over my models base.

The solution is both to varnish the model and use a soft surface pitch (like a mousemat material or neoprene one). Deepcut make them, GW are rumoured to be coming out with some (they should have just started with them IMO). Not sure if anyone else makes them.

In a game where you put time limits on, it's nice just laying down models as it's the easiest way to visualise tackle zones.

I already have the solution, got perfect tokens for this game. Just wish GW would facilitating wider aspect of the hobby.

Been playing miniature games for decades. My miniatures don't get damaged.

Btw, varnish does horrendous things to the paint job.

Vorian wrote:
But you could freeze frame Gimli in a pose that looks similar to these dwarfs - even the Slayer

You know, thinking back to the movies at least, I can picture Gimli as a perfect Blood Bowl player. Think of the Balin's Tomb scene when he's being chased by the cave troll and ducking and diving under the goblins, or when he's fighting the Uruk's at then end of the Fellowship when he's throwing his throwing axes. Or during the Two Towers when he leaps onto the group of Uruk's after the Deeping Wall has been destroyed. Now picture all of this in Blood Bowl gear and that's now how I imagine the Dwarves will play and move in game.

Indeed, some people seem to have equated dwarfs = slow with dwarf movement = sloth movement.

They still have to have the dynamism to cut goblins heads off with an axe!

Vorian wrote:
Indeed, some people seem to have equated dwarfs = slow with dwarf movement = sloth movement.

They still have to have the dynamism to cut goblins heads off with an axe!

Gonna say... just look at Tyrion Lannister or Gimli. Badasses with an axe

Vorian wrote:
Indeed, some people seem to have equated dwarfs = slow with dwarf movement = sloth movement.

They still have to have the dynamism to cut goblins heads off with an axe!

No, what some people have done is actually read about Warhammer Dwarfs, who are consistently and repeatedly described as moving and fighting economically, even mechanically, almost always in a very regimented and controlled style. That doesn't mean "slow = sloth", it means if a Dwarf has the choice between taking you out at the knees then hacking off your head like he's chopping wood or leaping into the air while flourishing his axes and pirouetting around his haircare-advert-flowing-in-the-wind beard before he kills you like some fancified Elf, you'd best be wearing plenty of knee armour.

And, outside of the frenzied slayer, I don't see where any of them are doing anything near that.

Strength and timing, not dancing around like a ninja elf.

Gimli's motions were pretty much always with his feet planted** and mostly just stumbling round and bashing Orcs like he was chopping wood.

**The couple of times you see him not on his feet he's falling over, being thrown or that one time at Helm's Deep where he jumped awkwardly off the wall arse and feet first in to the Uruks (not a well coordinated bounding jump like you see the Troll Slayers doing).

Dwarfs are short legged and broad, their strength isn't in putting themselves off balance trying to be dynamic.

At least that's how I've always seen them. Fighting with both feet firmly planted and from a sturdy base.

From the Blood Bowl Facebook page, when asked about the contents of the upcoming Dwarf box:

Blood Bowl wrote:Well, we had a cheeky word with James down in Blood Bowl HQ and he said the box contains:

2 x Runners
2x Blitzers
2 x Troll Slayers
6 x Blockers (Linemen)

I hope that helps!

 Ghaz wrote:
From the Blood Bowl Facebook page, when asked about the contents of the upcoming Dwarf box:

Blood Bowl wrote:Well, we had a cheeky word with James down in Blood Bowl HQ and he said the box contains:

2 x Runners
2x Blitzers
2 x Troll Slayers
6 x Blockers (Linemen)

I hope that helps!

Well at least they make for an efficient team straight out of the box!

Vorian wrote:
And, outside of the frenzied slayer, I don't see where any of them are doing anything near that.

It's almost as if that's the exact model that sparked this whole discussion in the first place...

Strong contrast to the orc set which has 6 linemen, but lack of positionals. Dwarves actually need more linemen, but have all positions.

Baxx wrote:
Strong contrast to the orc set which has 6 linemen, but lack of positionals. Dwarves actually need more linemen, but have all positions.

All the team boxes have 6x linemen and 6x positionals. So it's not really a contrast in model terms, it's just in game terms some teams rely more on positionals than others.

Given the way GW have been arranging the sprues, everything we see is going to be in multiples of 2

 Yodhrin wrote:

Vorian wrote:
And, outside of the frenzied slayer, I don't see where any of them are doing anything near that.

It's almost as if that's the exact model that sparked this whole discussion in the first place...

No, No it was not. I've not got a cool meme to indicate made up stuff, sorry.

However if someone were to say that then you'd have to question what kind of slow motion frenzy they had in their head when they imagined slayers on the field...

Vorian wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Vorian wrote:
And, outside of the frenzied slayer, I don't see where any of them are doing anything near that.

It's almost as if that's the exact model that sparked this whole discussion in the first place...

No, No it was not. I've not got a cool meme to indicate made up stuff, sorry.

However if someone were to say that then you'd have to question what kind of slow motion frenzy they had in their head when they imagined slayers on the field...

Yes, yes it was absolutely that, the slayer which was then compared to the fantasy slayer leaping off the rock, is there a meme for didn't read just responded? You could use that.

 feeder wrote:
I hate to be negative about what, overall, is a great thing - that being GW re-releasing BB without fething it up - but I am not feeling those Dorfs.

Dorfs are stoic solid rocks, not dynamic action heroes with flowing tresemme beards. And that roller is dorky as hell on top of being too big to be practical on the pitch.

Oh well. I'm looking forwards to new Undead and excited to see what they can do with the various flavors of elf.

*shrug* Nope.

Slayers look a bit daft for now - but I'm withholding judgement until I can see the models in person.

It may soften my opinion, it may not.

Either way....£20 for a team, hard to say no to.

 MangoMadness wrote:

Baxx wrote:

Would you repaint all the noses of my elf team then? They chipped after a single day. After playing warmachine, laying down models is just something of the past.

Maybe invest in some varnish?

Ive been laying BB models down since 1990, models get damaged, thats a part of gaming where models are touched on a regular basis but you can mitigate that damage with a couple of good layers of quality varnish and also by having a good undercoat.

standing models with 'knocked down' markers? Pfft, lay those suckers down like a man and stop being so prissy about the paint. if you want to have display quality models then put them on display

THANK YOU! I use a good primer(mostly Army Painter.) and good varnish and while I won't say a team has'nt needed a bit of a touch up on "points and sometimes an edge" at the end of a hard fought league, I have never lost sleep over it or racked my brain worrying about what I can do about it.

And in our league(The Thursdaynight Hero's. We just celebrated our 25th anniversery) we also don't use tokens to denote down and stunned, tho we may start using them for "big guys".

We think tokens look lame on the board. Looks better with, you know, figures on the pitch. And don't bother trolling me about this. If you like to us tokens, fine. We just don't use them and think the pitch looks kinda goofy without punched out players...

Just my opinion. YMMV, and I mean no offense. We have some very good painters in our group, but no one gets bent out of shape about laying miniatures down. I'm very sure the people here paint to a much higher standard then our best, and for those people, I'm sure they want to do everything they can to protect their miniatures.