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 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Faction Focus: Order, Death, Destruction

So the motivations are laid out there for why these factions are there. They all make sense. But don't let that stop the complaints about more non-Chaos stuff!

This is a great overview. I'm most curious at this point to see point values. It seems like Zarbag's Gitz make a great start to a Gobbo force, but I want to see how much more stuff I'd need.

I'm in the exact same boat! Looking forward to seeing how many crazy squigs and/or riders fit into a single warband

The other factions' motivations are a joke, if you ask me. Reason for Morathi sending her warriors in Allpoint ? To fuel her intrigues...what a surprise, really, she's doing exactly the same than, well, everything she did since she was out of Slaanesh's stomach. And Idoneth send their troops though "hidden portals" to get the corrupt souls of chaos servants even though it's hot damn dangerous and in the freaking territory of Archaon himself. Go grab some peasant souls in undefended areas instead, that way you won't lose more souls than you'll get by going in complete Chaos dominion, you fishbrains !

I bet true reason was they are popular armies in AoS and it's an easy way to get more players in by telling them "just use your favorite units !".

But hey, it's nice to think about players not wanting to play Chaos. Though I believe introducing mounts and ranged weapons this early while other Chaos warbands clearly don't have those may be showing some...clear gap, let's say, between the factions.

Most of those motivations are tenuous at best lol

Eh. The implication is the fish riders are 250-300 points each.
With the way attacks and damage work, I don't know that they'll stand up all that well. I suspect the gap may well be the reverse of what you're thinking, given what some of the ~100 point models are capable of.

The bigger concern is what bands with strong ranged attacks are capable of.

 Sarouan wrote:
The other factions' motivations are a joke, if you ask me. Reason for Morathi sending her warriors in Allpoint ? To fuel her intrigues...what a surprise, really, she's doing exactly the same than, well, everything she did since she was out of Slaanesh's stomach. And Idoneth send their troops though "hidden portals" to get the corrupt souls of chaos servants even though it's hot damn dangerous and in the freaking territory of Archaon himself. Go grab some peasant souls in undefended areas instead, that way you won't lose more souls than you'll get by going in complete Chaos dominion, you fishbrains !

I bet true reason was they are popular armies in AoS and it's an easy way to get more players in by telling them "just use your favorite units !".

But hey, it's nice to think about players not wanting to play Chaos. Though I believe introducing mounts and ranged weapons this early while other Chaos warbands clearly don't have those may be showing some...clear gap, let's say, between the factions.

You really should have mentioned ghosts as well. They totally follow Nagash's secret plan, but hush, we can't tell you what it is!

Also I wouldn't say Chaos warbands don't have ranged attacks. Mounts, sure*, but it takes one look at the Tamed Beasts whaler to see that that's not true.


*Discounting stilts which may end up working similar.

 Sarouan wrote:

I bet true reason was they are popular armies in AoS and it's an easy way to get more players in by telling them "just use your favorite units !".

Two flaws with that line of reasoning:

1) No Sylvaneth or Kharadron.
2) Nobody considers the Stormcast Vanguard their favorite units.

Shame the article wasn't more informative. i wonder how they handle leaders for the non-Chaos factions. Take Daughters of Khaine, for instance. Who gets a leader card? Snake elves? Bat elves? Murder elves? Other murder elves? All of them? They all have a squad leader who could fill that position.

 Geifer wrote:
Shame the article wasn't more informative. i wonder how they handle leaders for the non-Chaos factions. Take Daughters of Khaine, for instance. Who gets a leader card? Snake elves? Bat elves? Murder elves? Other murder elves? All of them? They all have a squad leader who could fill that position.

Hmm. They did mention “Crypt Infernal” on the FEC preview there, which is a Crypt Flayer Unit Leader. I bet it’s the Unit Leaders. Krones, Hags, Primes, Deathwarden, Etcetc. Though most likely focusing on the “Elite” units.

Cataphract wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
Shame the article wasn't more informative. i wonder how they handle leaders for the non-Chaos factions. Take Daughters of Khaine, for instance. Who gets a leader card? Snake elves? Bat elves? Murder elves? Other murder elves? All of them? They all have a squad leader who could fill that position.

Hmm. They did mention “Crypt Infernal” on the FEC preview there, which is a Crypt Flayer Unit Leader. I bet it’s the Unit Leaders. Krones, Hags, Primes, Deathwarden, Etcetc. Though most likely focusing on the “Elite” units.

They also mentioned Skeleton Champion and Senschal for LoN.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Faction Focus: Order, Death, Destruction

So the motivations are laid out there for why these factions are there. They all make sense. But don't let that stop the complaints about more non-Chaos stuff!

Well considering that the options are pretty lazy - nope.

Death - Legions of Nagash
Ok So we are ignoring most of the faction, especially given that vampires are awesome warrior/spies/adventueres/treasure seekers.

Just necromancers and the dead they can raise but nope - lets hammer them choices flat.

- No zombies for Necromancers to raise?
- No undead Beasts - Dire Wolves etc
- No undead cavalry or skeletal heroes.....

Sotahullu wrote:

Cataphract wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
Shame the article wasn't more informative. i wonder how they handle leaders for the non-Chaos factions. Take Daughters of Khaine, for instance. Who gets a leader card? Snake elves? Bat elves? Murder elves? Other murder elves? All of them? They all have a squad leader who could fill that position.

Hmm. They did mention “Crypt Infernal” on the FEC preview there, which is a Crypt Flayer Unit Leader. I bet it’s the Unit Leaders. Krones, Hags, Primes, Deathwarden, Etcetc. Though most likely focusing on the “Elite” units.

They also mentioned Skeleton Champion and Senschal for LoN.

Yeah, they do for some, but not for others. Which is really inconvenient for me because I'm sitting on some unused Daughters sprues and have been looking for an excuse to buy a box of snake elves. If they told me my girl of choice gets to be leader I could get building right now.

The idea that they might focus on elite units for leaders is actually what bothers me about the lack of information the most. Because of no model no rules, essentially, in AoS a normal Daughter on foot of either disposition is a hero choice while only the Bloodwrack Medusa specifically, but none of the other snake girls, is a hero. If GW decided to turn that on its head for Warcry and have snake and bat leaders but none on foot, that would be kind of stupid. Unfortunately we're talking about GW and I have unshakeable faith in their ability and drive to make those stupid decisions...

 Sarouan wrote:
The other factions' motivations are a joke, if you ask me. Reason for Morathi sending her warriors in Allpoint ? To fuel her intrigues...what a surprise, really, she's doing exactly the same than, well, everything she did since she was out of Slaanesh's stomach. And Idoneth send their troops though "hidden portals" to get the corrupt souls of chaos servants even though it's hot damn dangerous and in the freaking territory of Archaon himself. Go grab some peasant souls in undefended areas instead, that way you won't lose more souls than you'll get by going in complete Chaos dominion, you fishbrains !

Surely the best one is the Bonesplitterz line: "Their motivations in this Chaos-tainted realm are unclear". Because sometimes even the fluff writer who needs to fill about 4 lines of text can't be bothered to come up with something. Amazing.

If they want to focus on Chaos warbands, don't include a host of others from the start. If they want this to be the Kill Team equivalent, don't largely make it about new Chaos warbands in a Chaos setting. It starts to look as if they were planning two different projects, and figured it would fit in the release schedule better if they just merged them into one game.

Besides, couldn't they just have switched the storylines? Instead of these non-Chaos factions visiting and somehow surviving in a Chaos stronghold, have the various marauders launch a series of raids and incursions along the borders of the enemy territories to win the favour of both Archaon and their gods, and the wild creatures of Chaos follow in their wake (because I don't mind an excuse for plastic Furies, those critters are pretty nice). Or whatever reason somebody wants to come up with for anything. The official backstory certainly reads like they decided upon the inclusion of factions and then came up with an excuse to have them there, rather than having a story and then including the relevant factions.

They're not raiding the Varanspire...people get that right?

The setting is the Allpoints. That's not "a Chaos stronghold".

 Kanluwen wrote:
They're not raiding the Varanspire...people get that right?

The setting is the Allpoints. That's not "a Chaos stronghold".

Yep. From Lexicanum:

The Allpoints is an inter-realm island, connected to each of the Mortal Realms by Realmgates known as the All-Gates. It has since been renamed by the forces of Chaos into the Eightpoints

The Allpoints was as an important nexus of travel that was used in the Age of Myth.

Knowning that the Allpoints was key to conquering the Mortal Realms, Archaon attacked all the All-Gates simultaneously. Sigmar armies managed to hold out the ferocity of chaos, failing only when Nagash side fell. After Archaon's conquest he created a gateway to the Realm of Chaos within and renamed it the Eightpoints.

Realizing Sigmar's plan to reconquer the Realmgates, Archaon decided to reinforce the Eightpoints.

While the Realmgate Wars were happening, Sigmar's gaze was constantly drawn to the Allpoints where one of his greatest foes resided, the Everchosen.

 Kanluwen wrote:
They're not raiding the Varanspire...people get that right?

The setting is the Allpoints. That's not "a Chaos stronghold".

The All Points/Eight Points is very much a domain of Chaos - the non Chaos factions are sending people there to salvage treausres, spy on the enemy and generally mess with Chaos.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:
The other factions' motivations are a joke, if you ask me. Reason for Morathi sending her warriors in Allpoint ? To fuel her intrigues...what a surprise, really, she's doing exactly the same than, well, everything she did since she was out of Slaanesh's stomach. And Idoneth send their troops though "hidden portals" to get the corrupt souls of chaos servants even though it's hot damn dangerous and in the freaking territory of Archaon himself. Go grab some peasant souls in undefended areas instead, that way you won't lose more souls than you'll get by going in complete Chaos dominion, you fishbrains !

Surely the best one is the Bonesplitterz line: "Their motivations in this Chaos-tainted realm are unclear". Because sometimes even the fluff writer who needs to fill about 4 lines of text can't be bothered to come up with something. Amazing.

If they want to focus on Chaos warbands, don't include a host of others from the start. If they want this to be the Kill Team equivalent, don't largely make it about new Chaos warbands in a Chaos setting. It starts to look as if they were planning two different projects, and figured it would fit in the release schedule better if they just merged them into one game.

Besides, couldn't they just have switched the storylines? Instead of these non-Chaos factions visiting and somehow surviving in a Chaos stronghold, have the various marauders launch a series of raids and incursions along the borders of the enemy territories to win the favour of both Archaon and their gods, and the wild creatures of Chaos follow in their wake (because I don't mind an excuse for plastic Furies, those critters are pretty nice). Or whatever reason somebody wants to come up with for anything. The official backstory certainly reads like they decided upon the inclusion of factions and then came up with an excuse to have them there, rather than having a story and then including the relevant factions.

. Reversing it works less well. Small bands of chaos thralls sniffing around the borders of Hammerhal/<faction stronghold>? Send out a couple hundred cavalry and hunt them down like dogs.

Order/destruction armies sneaking in scouts to Allpoints? All part of the challenge and the proving.

How to paint videos are back - now with extra Contrast

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:

I bet true reason was they are popular armies in AoS and it's an easy way to get more players in by telling them "just use your favorite units !".

Two flaws with that line of reasoning:

1) No Sylvaneth or Kharadron.
2) Nobody considers the Stormcast Vanguard their favorite units.

I bet it's just too soon for the Sylvaneth and Kharadron. GW will have to sell those nice and juicy expansions, won't they.

As for the Stormcast, they just had to be there. Sigmar has certainly the bigger incentive to get this place back - and the treasures that were there. Sending Vanguard is logical, since it's Chaos territory here and playing the scout in enemy lands is quite their job. But mechanically ? I don't think it's a good thing to put them here. The Chaos warbands are, I feel, pretty much balanced with each other because in the end, they're all chaos marauders (mostly humans, though there are a few other races here and there). They may have ranged weapons, but they're mostly throwed weapons, so the range is limited. The core of these bands is still focused on close combat - and all being on foot. That's not the case with the other factions.

But hey, the game can work with just the Chaos factions once they will be all here. I can see running a campaign with Chaos only warbands, should be fun.

Yeah, those "thrown weapons" will be at such a disadvantage compared to the likely 12" range of the hand crossbows on the Hunters, 9"/18" on the Reavers(assuming they duplicate the Storm/Aimed Fire profiles), etc.

And really? Complaining about "selling those nice and juicy expansions"? It's $8 for the profile cards for the faction. Everything else needed is in the Core book.

Man I can't sort this all out, what I'm getting is:
-Non-Chaos warbands are lazy and they should have just focused on Chaos ones
-There's not enough support for non-Chaos warbands and there should be more of them.
-The fluff doesn't make sense because people haven't read it
-The fluff isn't worth reading because it doesn't make sense
-The campaign system is no better than pick up games
-You can't play pick up games because of the campaign system

Is this just internet being internet or have I just lost the page?

So does anyone know whether the starter box will be an one off, or whether it will stay in production for foreseeable future?

Put away the concern jar for now, some weapons also had minimum range, we didn't see everything yet.

 Kanluwen wrote:


Yeah, those "thrown weapons" will be at such a disadvantage compared to the likely 12" range of the hand crossbows on the Hunters, 9"/18" on the Reavers(assuming they duplicate the Storm/Aimed Fire profiles), etc.

And really? Complaining about "selling those nice and juicy expansions"? It's $8 for the profile cards for the faction. Everything else needed is in the Core book.

I'm not talking about the card packs. It follows GW's pattern with warcry, putting all the rules of the warbands on cards only and not the books. What's in the books, however, is the background, missions and quests (as well as the core rules, obviously).

I expect GW to make another book at some point adding more of them, and explaining why the second wave of other factions are there as well (and making new card packs for the additionnal non chaos factions). That's the expansion I'm talking about.

About the ranged weapons, I expect their long crossbows to cover most of the board. Terrains that break line of sight will be required against Stormcast. If you can't see the difference between one miniature able to throw a javelot at 8' and a crossbow that will be most likely a lot higher than that, and the fact that nearly all of the warriors in the Stormcast warband will be equiped with, then I can't help you.

Does anyone know what the weapon symbols actually do? I mean for example some melee attacks have mace symbol whilst others have an axe symbol. Presumably this has some meaning in the rules?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Man I can't sort this all out, what I'm getting is:
-Non-Chaos warbands are lazy and they should have just focused on Chaos ones
-There's not enough support for non-Chaos warbands and there should be more of them.
-The fluff doesn't make sense because people haven't read it
-The fluff isn't worth reading because it doesn't make sense
-The campaign system is no better than pick up games
-You can't play pick up games because of the campaign system

Is this just internet being internet or have I just lost the page?

Non Chaos Warbands are lazy - because they are - they don't need to focuss on them - just give a few more options as I outlined in my post.
The fluff is very sparse - mostly interesting but very little of it - having read completly the leaked rulebook, more on the website which is nice
The fluff is worth reading for the most part
The Campaign system is Kill Team - if you like it - its good - if you don't its very very thin, little consequences, customisation etc etc. Maybe they will do some campaign elements for the Order, Death and Destruction - use the vague plot hooks to do this - maybe in white Dwarf - i doubt it.

On the plus side - Models are pretty much all very nice.

 Crimson wrote:
Does anyone know what the weapon symbols actually do? I mean for example some melee attacks have mace symbol whilst others have an axe symbol. Presumably this has some meaning in the rules?

It's identifying the weapon(or weapons) in question on the model.

So to use this First Fang as an example:

His first weapon is the Harpoon. It shows you the weapon's range(the arrow swooshing into a circle), the number of attacks from activating and using that weapon(the sword), the strength of the weapon(the fist), and the damage value(skull split in half--the first number is a 'normal' attack while the second is the damage from a Crit, which you get from rolling a 6).
Right underneath is his axe which is set up the same(range, attacks, strength, damage).
Compare to the Ogor from the Iron Golems:

He has just his fists and as such only has one weapon.

^ Yes, I get that, but does the weapon symbol in itself have some rule significance? Does it matter that First Fang's melee attack is an axe and Ogor's is a fist?

Not so far as we’ve seen I don’t think.

Nope.

And that Ogor can still throw bolas as Iron Golem's universal ability. Putting off those hammer gloves must be inconvenient .

I rather fear it’s not his bolas he’s throwing