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JWBS wrote:
It's almost like, by comparing an everyday line product to this ultra-limited, once in a 20 year deal that can't be sourced from third party discounters and is clearly a stock clearing measure that just so happens to be a combination of two products who's value he's lauding ...he's being deliberately disingenuous? No, that can't be it

You do realize that, being the designers packagers and maufacturers of both, the only reason that the "ultra-limited, once in a 20 year deal that can't be sourced from third party discounters" is all the above is, specifically, because they have made it so, right?

Or, in other words, the sole reason why they don't do the same every time is because they want to squeeze more blood out of rocks. Because, I assure you, they are not losing money with that deal.

Yes. All of that goes w/o saying. Hence I didn't say it. Did you know that a chef's hat has exactly one hundred pleats?

edit - I suppose what I should have said though, is that his comparison makes even less sense given that it's only relevant for like 3 days. It would be as if they suddenly pumped the price of Abaddon black by 80% and then someone were to praise the value of Corax white relative to Abaddon black, and we should all be clamouring for more CW, despite that CW was only 'great value' for like those six days in June of 2020. But that point has already been made I guess. But there's another analogy explaining why he's wrong anyway.

JWBS wrote:
Yes. All of that goes w/o saying. Hence I didn't say it. Did you know that a chef's hat has exactly one hundred pleats?

edit - I suppose what I should have said though, is that his comparison makes even less sense given that it's only relevant for like 3 days. It would be as if they suddenly pumped the price of Abaddon black by 80% and then someone were to praise the value of Corax white relative to Abaddon black, and we should all be clamouring for more CW, despite that CW was only 'great value' for like those six days in June of 2020. But that point has already been made I guess. But there's another analogy explaining why he's wrong anyway.

Dunno man, seemed to me the way you were defending they were not the same was for something else than "because GW said so".

 Albertorius wrote:

JWBS wrote:
Yes. All of that goes w/o saying. Hence I didn't say it. Did you know that a chef's hat has exactly one hundred pleats?

edit - I suppose what I should have said though, is that his comparison makes even less sense given that it's only relevant for like 3 days. It would be as if they suddenly pumped the price of Abaddon black by 80% and then someone were to praise the value of Corax white relative to Abaddon black, and we should all be clamouring for more CW, despite that CW was only 'great value' for like those six days in June of 2020. But that point has already been made I guess. But there's another analogy explaining why he's wrong anyway.

Dunno man, seemed to me the way you were defending they were not the same was for something else than "because GW said so".

I think the issue is the initial angry tirade about combat patrols was and is full of factually inaccurate statements and entirely lopsided comparisons.

 Albertorius wrote:

JWBS wrote:
Yes. All of that goes w/o saying. Hence I didn't say it. Did you know that a chef's hat has exactly one hundred pleats?

edit - I suppose what I should have said though, is that his comparison makes even less sense given that it's only relevant for like 3 days. It would be as if they suddenly pumped the price of Abaddon black by 80% and then someone were to praise the value of Corax white relative to Abaddon black, and we should all be clamouring for more CW, despite that CW was only 'great value' for like those six days in June of 2020. But that point has already been made I guess. But there's another analogy explaining why he's wrong anyway.

Dunno man, seemed to me the way you were defending they were not the same was for something else than "because GW said so".

My point was not to defend anything (although I suppose ultimately I was defending the value of CP in an oblique fashion). I don't entirely understand your point either tbh so I don't think I can clarify my point any further. Yes, the prices are set by GW, all of them, and some stuff is better value than others (whether perceived or actual), but him pointing to this super special deal, that happens to include a couple of SC boxes, as if it proves that CS boxes are inherently a better deal than CP - well, it just doesn't.

JWBS wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

JWBS wrote:
Yes. All of that goes w/o saying. Hence I didn't say it. Did you know that a chef's hat has exactly one hundred pleats?

edit - I suppose what I should have said though, is that his comparison makes even less sense given that it's only relevant for like 3 days. It would be as if they suddenly pumped the price of Abaddon black by 80% and then someone were to praise the value of Corax white relative to Abaddon black, and we should all be clamouring for more CW, despite that CW was only 'great value' for like those six days in June of 2020. But that point has already been made I guess. But there's another analogy explaining why he's wrong anyway.

Dunno man, seemed to me the way you were defending they were not the same was for something else than "because GW said so".

My point was not to defend anything (although I suppose ultimately I was defending the value of CP in an oblique fashion). I don't entirely understand your point either tbh so I don't think I can clarify my point any further. Yes, the prices are set by GW, all of them, and some stuff is better value than others (whether perceived or actual), but him pointing to this super special deal, that happens to include a couple of SC boxes, as if it proves that CS boxes are inherently a better deal than CP - well, it just doesn't.

My point is that comparing a specific GW deal set to another specific GW deal set is not really comparing apples to oranges, but rather comparing apples to other apples that GW has decided to make less plentiful.

Right but in this analogy, if you want to dig down into it, pointing to the 3 day only, 'get em while you can' yellow apples, to prove that red apples are better value than green apples, is fallacious.

JWBS wrote:
Right but in this analogy, if you want to dig down into it, pointing to the 3 day only, 'get em while you can' yellow apples, to prove that red apples are better value than green apples, is fallacious.

About as much as pointing to any other one, when the due date is arbitrary. Hence why I said that the, to follow the analogy, "3 day only, 'get em while you can' yellow apples" are only that because GW has decided it, and for no other reason whatsoever. Because they completely control all the steps of the product.

What is fallacious is the due date, because it's a construct.

In my completely personal observation that may be wrong Combat Patrols tend to lean more heavily than SC! into models I perceive as overpriced to create "savings" on sticker price while providing poor value.

I humbly disagree and am therefore compelled to offer a duel to decide whom of us is a nincompoop and whom is the champion of the internet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I offer, in my own defence, the AM CP, which is like to old AM SC, but with some extra robots, plus a spider tank instead of a hover tank like we got with AM SC mk2 (Spider beats hover eight times out of ten).

AM CP is in fact the only CP I bought so it might be an exception

I'll take that as a concession. I'm officially retiring now as undefeated King of the Internet, any new challengers will have to fight it out among themselves.

Krondys/Karazai £95 in the Christmas guide and no army boxes in it rumour is to expect webstore discount bundles instead.

JWBS wrote:
I'll take that as a concession. I'm officially retiring now as undefeated King of the Internet, any new challengers will have to fight it out among themselves.

SC! Tau is bloody perfect. I buy it for breakfeast, but I wouldn't mind if they turn it into a CP with Enfocer Commander instead of/alongside Ethereal/or Broadside.

Then you have Space Wolves, which is pretty much unfitting thematically and as a force based on the codex. DE is much better at that.

Then, for AoS, I got wonders like SC! BCR, FEC, both Seraphons, SCE, kinda the four Daemons, which are pretty much CPs at great prices and fromm which you can build entire armies just buying the same box multiple times, somwthing you can't really do reliably in 40K.

 DaveC wrote:
Krondys/Karazai £95 in the Christmas guide and no army boxes in it rumour is to expect webstore discount bundles instead.

Wait, no Battleforces? somethig else or pics related?

Combat Patrols just feel like a bit to steep of an entry cost, y'know?

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Combat Patrols just feel like a bit to steep of an entry cost, y'know?

They definitely hit that sweet spot of both 'value' whilst not being so high that Lil Timmy's parents would do an about turn out of the shop.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Combat Patrols just feel like a bit to steep of an entry cost, y'know?

They definitely hit that sweet spot of both 'value' whilst not being so high that Lil Timmy's parents would do an about turn out of the shop.

For me that sweet spot was SC! Combat Patrols are on average around 50$ or so more expensive. And they don't even give that much more extra compared to a Start Collecting- i mean, for example, the AdMech one only gave you one extra 3-man troop squad for that increase. I don't know if i would start AdMech when i did if instead of the old Start Collecting, my potential starter set would be the Combat Patrol.

 CMLR wrote:

JWBS wrote:
I'll take that as a concession. I'm officially retiring now as undefeated King of the Internet, any new challengers will have to fight it out among themselves.

SC! Tau is bloody perfect. I buy it for breakfeast, but I wouldn't mind if they turn it into a CP with Enfocer Commander instead of/alongside Ethereal/or Broadside.

Then you have Space Wolves, which is pretty much unfitting thematically and as a force based on the codex. DE is much better at that.

Then, for AoS, I got wonders like SC! BCR, FEC, both Seraphons, SCE, kinda the four Daemons, which are pretty much CPs at great prices and fromm which you can build entire armies just buying the same box multiple times, somwthing you can't really do reliably in 40K.

 DaveC wrote:
Krondys/Karazai £95 in the Christmas guide and no army boxes in it rumour is to expect webstore discount bundles instead.

Wait, no Battleforces? something else or pics related?

Okay, so you are saying (my Friend, as I don't know much about all of the various releases), that there are vey man releases, good for many gamers/modellers that we know now? Good, I agree) but whatever way you look at it, there are some box sets that we know what to look at. Sorry, I am little bit at a good place to judge this ( Friday night, not best positioned), but, I think we can all agree, GW trying (at least somewhat), to sell us some plastic soldiers to make us somewhat happy


Automatically Appended Next Post:
^^ very drunk, sorry, idk if any of that make ssense

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Combat Patrols just feel like a bit to steep of an entry cost, y'know?

They definitely hit that sweet spot of both 'value' whilst not being so high that Lil Timmy's parents would do an about turn out of the shop.

For me that sweet spot was SC! Combat Patrols are on average around 50$ or so more expensive. And they don't even give that much more extra compared to a Start Collecting- i mean, for example, the AdMech one only gave you one extra 3-man troop squad for that increase. I don't know if i would start AdMech when i did if instead of the old Start Collecting, my potential starter set would be the Combat Patrol.

The main appeal is that they are a 500 point army out of the box. TBH, I think it's more representative that warhammer armies have become too big (too many models) and would like to see points costs for models go up instead of down. It is a steeper entry point, and I haven't seen much hype about Combat Patrols. Start Collectings were typically under 100 USD, so it wasn't as hard to sell them.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Combat Patrols just feel like a bit to steep of an entry cost, y'know?

They definitely hit that sweet spot of both 'value' whilst not being so high that Lil Timmy's parents would do an about turn out of the shop.

For me that sweet spot was SC! Combat Patrols are on average around 50$ or so more expensive. And they don't even give that much more extra compared to a Start Collecting- i mean, for example, the AdMech one only gave you one extra 3-man troop squad for that increase. I don't know if i would start AdMech when i did if instead of the old Start Collecting, my potential starter set would be the Combat Patrol.

Sorry, I was referring to SC!s in my post. Combat Patrols are definitely GW trying to take the mickey as usual. "If they'll pay £60, they'll pay £85" until they're left wondering why they sold less.

The new Nurgle box is a Vanguard box and will retail for €100 which is around £78 and $125. Looks like Vanguard is the AoS version of combat patrols.

Reminded me how much of a disaster these nurgle heralds are. Really sad since the aos nurgle range is absolutely exquisite

Most of the Combat Patrol boxes suck. The Deathwatch one doesn't even have any Deathwatch minis in it. The Death Guard one has 3 incomplete models. The Ork one, as much as I like what's there as a 1-off, is filled to the gills with push-fit minis. The Blood Angel, Dark Eldar and maybe the AdMech ones seem to be the only worthwhile ones.

And the jump of $100 does have a massive sticker shock to it. I know I would have never got the Blood Angel one if I hadn't got a $100 voucher from work.

Would be a real shame of AoS got saddled with them.

I figure for a time we'll end up with them as GW rides the coat tails of long returned fans willing to spend more; then at some point new customer uptake will slow and they'll release and focus on cheaper sets for a while to get new people in.

Cool. Kind of a shame I bought another SC Maggotkin recently, I thought that would be it for my Nurgle but I guess I'll buy one of these. Also a shame there's not the fly head sorcerer in this instead of that daemon character.

People rightly lost it over the new Wight King being locked in the SC, so better that it's released by itself.

Indeed, similar concerns are occasionally voiced over the Chaos Lord in the Slaves to Darkness box.

Of course exclusivity is entirely a problem of GW's own making. They could effortlessly release a new character separately and still put it in the start collecting box or equivalent released at the same time. They just value the extra profit they hope box exclusivity gets them higher than customer satisfaction.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Most of the Combat Patrol boxes suck. The Deathwatch one doesn't even have any Deathwatch minis in it. The Death Guard one has 3 incomplete models. The Ork one, as much as I like what's there as a 1-off, is filled to the gills with push-fit minis. The Blood Angel, Dark Eldar and maybe the AdMech ones seem to be the only worthwhile ones.

Wait.

What? fething incomplete models? What is this I don't even.

There's random Plague Marine bits on the Pox sprues.

 lare2 wrote:
There's random Plague Marine bits on the Pox sprues.

Of course, why the feth not >_>