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Goose LeChance wrote: And now they have a bunch of half finished and neglected armies
Can you point out which and why? Fyreslayers are the low hanging fruit here and you have no arguments from me on that one but I would be interested to hear others' perceptions on which armies are incomplete.
Seraphon (which have gotten functionally skipped (in terms of models) every edition so far)
Beasts (have a character model to replace the character models you've already got, alternately, a terrain piece.
He-man Skeletons, which turned into a one and done project
Fish elves, for the same reason
Witch elves, which had a promising start with the harpies and medusas, then somehow turned into character, character, character. (And i can't figure out why, with 3 editions of AoS, they've had so many iterations of basically nothing)
Orcs without goblins, which have the new guys, the last push for savage orc plastic kits, and a couple bad renditions of black orcs, but don't really congeal into a functional army.
Giants
the crazy vampires with the weird plastic mutant orcs passing as ghouls. Where it took years and years just to get a vampire character that wasn't ripped off the back of a zombie dragon.
Fire dwarves
Special mention for Malekith's brand of elfs, which three editions in and it hasn't even materialized yet!
and Cities of Sigmar, which have _lost_ stuff every iteration, and will probably be binned completely and replaced by the Dawnbringer army (or at least that was my impression from latest Dawnbringer preview, where they started using 'Dawnbringer Crusade' and 'Cities of Sigmar' interchangeably).
Some of the others (fallout dwarves, skaven, sylvaneth) still need work, but don't feel actively incomplete and neglected anymore
Age of Sigmar has improved a lot, but somehow they still really let some factions rot and over-updated others (especially light elfs and sigmarines)
And clearly with beasts and gloomspite, this isn't changing anytime soon.
I'm asking about opinions on armies being incomplete, which none of this is.
That really wasn't clear from the post Voss responded to - Goose referenced "half finished and neglected" armies. Your response asked him to point out "which and why?", and only at the end did you pivot to "incomplete" - something that wasn't what was being talked about until that point, and which you failed to define at that stage in the thread.
Voss' response certainly hits the "neglected" side of things, and arguably the "half finished", too.
There's also an argument that any faction without a faction terrain piece and a set of endless spells (or equivalent) could be said to be incomplete, let alone needing artillery.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2022/11/21 00:41:22
Subject: AOS N&R (Battletome Roadmap, BoC and GG preview pg 111)
Meanwhile, Voss really hit the nail on the head and could have gone deeper. AoS is in a bad place. Its sad because the wolf riders are great models, but the armies themselves are so messed up they don't fit at all with the army they've been put in (GSG).
They're Goblins riding wolves. What other army would you put them in??
Meanwhile they'll fit perfectly into myGSG force. Of course the majority of mine is simply all my ancient WHFB goblins from 3e-around 5e/6e. A % of the archers/spears are Forest goblins, but very few are wearing the night goblin robes & hoods.
2022/11/21 02:25:19
Subject: AOS N&R (Battletome Roadmap, BoC and GG preview pg 111)
Meanwhile, Voss really hit the nail on the head and could have gone deeper. AoS is in a bad place. Its sad because the wolf riders are great models, but the armies themselves are so messed up they don't fit at all with the army they've been put in (GSG).
They're Goblins riding wolves. What other army would you put them in??
Meanwhile they'll fit perfectly into myGSG force. Of course the majority of mine is simply all my ancient WHFB goblins from 3e-around 5e/6e. A % of the archers/spears are Forest goblins, but very few are wearing the night goblin robes & hoods.
The GSG lore talked of other goblins that worshiped the Evil Sun. Khardron talked of goblin sky pirates. Those two threads could have been combined into a new goblin faction that could have incorporated wolf riders. If the GSG release is more than just a unit box of wolf riders and they want to add some more to the subfaction, could see return of the wolf chariot and wolf riding hero.
Not happy with the wolf riders being added to GSG because it is another subfaction in a book that has horrible synergy in and between it's subfactions. Worried the book will remain a mess.
2022/11/21 03:41:55
Subject: AOS N&R (Battletome Roadmap, BoC and GG preview pg 111)
Meanwhile, Voss really hit the nail on the head and could have gone deeper. AoS is in a bad place. Its sad because the wolf riders are great models, but the armies themselves are so messed up they don't fit at all with the army they've been put in (GSG).
They're Goblins riding wolves. What other army would you put them in??
Meanwhile they'll fit perfectly into myGSG force. Of course the majority of mine is simply all my ancient WHFB goblins from 3e-around 5e/6e. A % of the archers/spears are Forest goblins, but very few are wearing the night goblin robes & hoods.
The GSG lore talked of other goblins that worshiped the Evil Sun. Khardron talked of goblin sky pirates. Those two threads could have been combined into a new goblin faction that could have incorporated wolf riders. If the GSG release is more than just a unit box of wolf riders and they want to add some more to the subfaction, could see return of the wolf chariot and wolf riding hero.
Not happy with the wolf riders being added to GSG because it is another subfaction in a book that has horrible synergy in and between it's subfactions. Worried the book will remain a mess.
Did the Subfaction issues get solved in the Ogre tome? I feel like GW would try to address this in the new GSG book, as that is by far the largest complaint about it. inner issues with Subfactions also seem to be less of a thing so far in 3.0 tomes for hte most part.
Meanwhile, Voss really hit the nail on the head and could have gone deeper. AoS is in a bad place. Its sad because the wolf riders are great models, but the armies themselves are so messed up they don't fit at all with the army they've been put in (GSG).
They're Goblins riding wolves. What other army would you put them in??
Meanwhile they'll fit perfectly into myGSG force. Of course the majority of mine is simply all my ancient WHFB goblins from 3e-around 5e/6e. A % of the archers/spears are Forest goblins, but very few are wearing the night goblin robes & hoods.
The GSG lore talked of other goblins that worshiped the Evil Sun. Khardron talked of goblin sky pirates. Those two threads could have been combined into a new goblin faction that could have incorporated wolf riders. If the GSG release is more than just a unit box of wolf riders and they want to add some more to the subfaction, could see return of the wolf chariot and wolf riding hero.
Not happy with the wolf riders being added to GSG because it is another subfaction in a book that has horrible synergy in and between it's subfactions. Worried the book will remain a mess.
I'd be quite happy with a goblin tome as thick as the Stormcasts or as varied as my Cities.
Meanwhile, Voss really hit the nail on the head and could have gone deeper. AoS is in a bad place. Its sad because the wolf riders are great models, but the armies themselves are so messed up they don't fit at all with the army they've been put in (GSG).
They're Goblins riding wolves. What other army would you put them in??
Meanwhile they'll fit perfectly into myGSG force. Of course the majority of mine is simply all my ancient WHFB goblins from 3e-around 5e/6e. A % of the archers/spears are Forest goblins, but very few are wearing the night goblin robes & hoods.
The GSG lore talked of other goblins that worshiped the Evil Sun. Khardron talked of goblin sky pirates. Those two threads could have been combined into a new goblin faction that could have incorporated wolf riders. If the GSG release is more than just a unit box of wolf riders and they want to add some more to the subfaction, could see return of the wolf chariot and wolf riding hero.
Not happy with the wolf riders being added to GSG because it is another subfaction in a book that has horrible synergy in and between it's subfactions. Worried the book will remain a mess.
Since the wolfriders are just one unit...it's hardly justifying selling a separate battletome for that. Maybe there's also a character coming with them, we don't know yet.
Bet the reason is simply they don't have enough new miniatures to make it their own separate faction. Putting them with the other goblins at least makes sense...and even if they're riding wolves, they're still nasty, evil gitz.
Having different styles inside the same faction with varied subfactions in it isn't a complete mess, to me. It just shows the faction itself isn't organized and made of different cultures (or kultures). It's totally fitting the greenskins' style, in fact.
In terms of game rules, that's another story...since the current edition is more competitive oriented, I guess we'll have a different way than the 2nd edition.
2022/11/21 14:16:40
Subject: AOS N&R (Battletome Roadmap, BoC and GG preview pg 111)
I had read somewhere that the current Start Collecting for StD was going to stop being available and when I looked at the online store it is still available in the USA but the UK and Australia both have it listed as "No Longer Available Online". So not sure what that means exactly.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2022/11/21 14:54:29
Subject: AOS N&R (Battletome Roadmap, BoC and GG preview pg 111)
Overread wrote: GW is slowly moving toward those Vanguard sized sets.
Yep. It's true for all of them. Better pick up what interest you while you still can !
On the plus side this means GW has to do some major work for Flesheaters cause for a Vanguard they basically just have the option of two getting started sets and a single plastic leader. Which would then mean that there'd only be 1 finecast model in their range that wouldn't be in their "getting started/vanguard" set.
The Snarlfang Riders are outstanding models, but feel like a WFB retread that is out of place in GSG.
Since there is time between the preview and when GSG and Beastmen are being released, I do wonder if we will see a couple more kits for either book in the same vein as this edition's Nighthaunt release. Not a major update, but 2-3 kits that expand the range. I guess GSG already are getting that between the wolf riders and Underworlds warband, but I could see a Snarlfang hero being released alongside the unit. As for BoC, I am still holding out for a plastic Jabberslythe and maybe one other kit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/11/21 16:29:41
2022/11/21 16:46:09
Subject: AOS N&R (Battletome Roadmap, BoC and GG preview pg 111)
Equinox wrote: The Snarlfang Riders are outstanding models, but feel like a WFB retread that is out of place in GSG.
Since there is time between the preview and when GSG and Beastmen are being released, I do wonder if we will see a couple more kits for either book in the same vein as this edition's Nighthaunt release. Not a major update, but 2-3 kits that expand the range. I guess GSG already are getting that between the wolf riders and Underworlds warband, but I could see a Snarlfang hero being released alongside the unit. As for BoC, I am still holding out for a plastic Jabberslythe and maybe one other kit.
I'd say theres' gonna be good money on a bet they show up prominently in the old world....
Ahtman wrote: I had read somewhere that the current Start Collecting for StD was going to stop being available and when I looked at the online store it is still available in the USA but the UK and Australia both have it listed as "No Longer Available Online". So not sure what that means exactly.
That just like every other sc it gets replaced by vanquard come new book. It's been pattern aos3. No reason to think std were different.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2022/11/21 17:35:59
Subject: AOS N&R (Battletome Roadmap, BoC and GG preview pg 111)
To each their own, I really like the look of them. I wish they were coming as a part of a Gotmob battletome (Destruction could certainly use some more armies) but I am much happier seeing the unit in GSG than not at all. Fingers crossed for a character build in there!
Better proportions, smaller weapons and wolves that look like big scary wolves instead of 3D prints of a Disney animation. Wolf riders always looked bland anyway.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/11/21 19:29:44
Old World Prediction: The Empire will have stupid Clockwork Paragon Warsuits and Mecha Horses
2022/11/21 19:20:19
Subject: AOS N&R (Battletome Roadmap, BoC and GG preview pg 111)
Equinox wrote: The Snarlfang Riders are outstanding models, but feel like a WFB retread that is out of place in GSG.
I'd say theres' gonna be good money on a bet they show up prominently in the old world....
Yeesh I hope not
They're all the worst parts of the old wolf riders dialed up to 11
They're literally goblins riding wolves. What exactly do you want them to be?
I would have liked them to match the aesthetic of the army they are in. They should be night goblins riding wolves instead of wannabe Mongol goblins.
I play:
40K: Daemons, Tau
AoS: Blades of Khorne, Disciples of Tzeentch
Warmachine: Convergence of Cyriss
Infinity: Haqqislam, Tohaa
Malifaux: Bayou
Star Wars Legion: Republic & Separatists
MESBG: Far Harad, Misty Mountains
2022/11/21 19:25:25
Subject: AOS N&R (Battletome Roadmap, BoC and GG preview pg 111)
Goose LeChance wrote: Better proportions, smaller weapons and wolves that look like big scary wolves instead of 3D prints of a Disney animation. Wolf riders always looked bland anyway.
You must be looking at something different than i am, because the proportions look fine from the image we have and the wolves, are wolves. Shockingly enough.
2022/11/21 19:42:04
Subject: AOS N&R (Battletome Roadmap, BoC and GG preview pg 111)
This release just shows what a mess AoS is. Why are sun worshipping wolf riders (strictly worse sculpts than Rippa's Snarlfangs too, well done GW) souped into the army of moon worshipping cave dwellers? At this rate AoS is going to end up as WFB skirmish without the charm.
2022/11/21 20:01:21
Subject: AOS N&R (Battletome Roadmap, BoC and GG preview pg 111)
JSG wrote: This release just shows what a mess AoS is. Why are sun worshipping wolf riders (strictly worse sculpts than Rippa's Snarlfangs too, well done GW) souped into the army of moon worshipping cave dwellers? At this rate AoS is going to end up as WFB skirmish without the charm.
I hope GW isn't trying to mix AoS and ToW together because they're gonna end up making everyone unhappy.
Old World Prediction: The Empire will have stupid Clockwork Paragon Warsuits and Mecha Horses
2022/11/21 20:05:36
Subject: AOS N&R (Battletome Roadmap, BoC and GG preview pg 111)
Also in general the concept of an army or faction can be quite broad or quite niche. Look at Skaven, one side use high tech machines and are essentially an elite army, another side uses huge monsters, another relies on swarms of pox ridden rats and numbers and almost super primitive tech.
They are all skaven, but different aspects of them.
Gloomspite Gitz could easily be going the same way of having different niches within the whole, one of which are the wolfriders. It might well be a sane way for Gw to expand the concept without having to invest in an entirely new army from scratch.
Also nothing says you can't have sun and moon worshippers operate in the same army, someone has to do scouting during the day when the moon worshippers are all abed after a long night of screaming at the moon.
Overread wrote: AoS had had Old World themes in it since day 1.
Also in general the concept of an army or faction can be quite broad or quite niche. Look at Skaven, one side use high tech machines and are essentially an elite army, another side uses huge monsters, another relies on swarms of pox ridden rats and numbers and almost super primitive tech.
They are all skaven, but different aspects of them.
Gloomspite Gitz could easily be going the same way of having different niches within the whole, one of which are the wolfriders. It might well be a sane way for Gw to expand the concept without having to invest in an entirely new army from scratch.
Also nothing says you can't have sun and moon worshippers operate in the same army, someone has to do scouting during the day when the moon worshippers are all abed after a long night of screaming at the moon.
Purest copium. For your Skaven analogy to work the Battletome would have to be Battletome: Clan Eshin but include everything anyway because they're all rats. There are more Dark Elf factions than Greenskin ones. AoS is just a dogs breakfast of half baked ideas and U-turns.
2022/11/21 20:39:01
Subject: AOS N&R (Battletome Roadmap, BoC and GG preview pg 111)
I love the wolf riders, I don't understand everyone's issue, there has always been 3 types of goblins, the mongol ones, forest, and night. I am pretty sure the mongol ones even came first. I love the callback to those old models as they were my favourite.
I really hope they release a whole range of this type of goblin, why not cycle through themes until the range really needs a refresh. If they do common goblins now and then forest goblins in three years it will be time to cycle back around to night goblins for a refresh after they have been around for 10 years.
It's what I wish they would do with guard. These new cadians dont match the old ones anyway, why not just do a whole range of something completely new, or tallarn or something fresh
4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
