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It would be cool to have Stormhosts that have been reforged so many times that if Sigmar isn't careful in their deployment, they can end up clashing with other Stormhosts.

Basically a lore excuse for players to have Stormcast vs Stormcast battles, as at the moment it seems to be gladitorial matches at best?

SamusDrake wrote:
It would be cool to have Stormhosts that have been reforged so many times that if Sigmar isn't careful in their deployment, they can end up clashing with other Stormhosts.

Basically a lore excuse for players to have Stormcast vs Stormcast battles, as at the moment it seems to be gladitorial matches at best?

Not just other Stormhosts, we've already had one or two tales of where Stormcast turned on humans and other allies because of corruption risks.

Basically each time they are reforged they lose more of their humanity and past and they are more driven toward one goal - destroying Chaos above all else.

So each time they become colder, more distant, less empathic and more fanatical.

This means they might well turn and destroy a whole village because one baby is born with 6 fingers on one hand since mutation is a mark of Chaos. Whilst a Stormcast with no/fewer reforgings might only kill the child or would look into it and work out that its just a natural occurrence and not a mark of Chaos.


This means we could see them clash with the humans and other races that they were once sworn to protect. That grandchildren of people once saved by stormcast and seeing them as angels from Sigmar; are now seeing them closer to demons. That some Cities might strike out on their own or seek aid from other sources or even try and hide Chaos that they find within their own walls to avoid the hammer of the Stormcast simply destroying the whole city (or a good portion of the population).


I think its a whole line of storytelling that is a bit tricky because on the one hand it favours stories that focus on mortals with names that we follow to see the changes and feel the impact; but at the same time it kind of needs 100s of years to play out to see that change as well.

Oh, I see. Cheers for that.

There is always trickery and manipulation to break solid alliances and pitch battle against battle brothers.
Not only tzeench and guys like the changeling, but I can think of lots of powerful beings that could be brought in as a behind the scenes manipulator of events for the narrativ if need be.

 Scottywan82 wrote:
This seems like the common problem with so much of the AoS lore. They don't want to commit to anything to leave everything there as a sandbox setting. But without committing to actions and consequences, the sandbox feels pretty hollow.

It could work if they get an army list and kit out of it. Stormcast of the Damned or some such, with darker rules to differentiate them from normal Stormcast.

Then you add rather than subtract.

Honestly I think the trick is to not have Stormcast fall to Chaos. Falling to Chaos is too easy to make them "evil and dangerous".

The thing is each time they are reforged they are less likely to fall to Chaos because all that's being left in them is a mechanical desire to destroy chaos.


Instead they are becoming more like a fusion of Ossiarchs and Daughters of Khaine. Less human and more inhuman and thus more of a risk to allies to call on for aid.

Do you call for aid from the Stormcast or even let them see any hint of Chaos in your population or do you reach out to other allies for aid when those allies might even be from groups that don't woreship sigmar, because they at least might not destroy your whole city; whilst the nearest Stormcast group almost certainly would because a few of the kids are born a little different or there's a cult in the city and you just need the cult removing not half the population.


Falling to Chaos is just too bland; having Stormcast who are fanatical; who are on the "same side" but a huge risk is way more interesting. Even for the Stormcast themselves you could see them argue or even fight each other. A newer Stormhost defending a settlement against their brothers because they realise that destroying the whole settlement isn't the right course of action. Whilst on the other side you've stormcast who can only think to destroy the whole settlement because the taint of Chaos is there to be seen and it must be purged least the infection spreads.

How can Sigmar now deal with two of his hosts fighting each other; or order within the hosts falling down because of major conflict. Especially when Sigmar has given up his maul and, whilst he's a god still, he's moved himself back from the front lines.

There's an idea in several fantasy books that Order is not good, Order can be oppressive, stifling and fanatical.

In 40k the Tyranids and Necrons are the ultimate 'Order' armies.

So a Stormcast army that behaves more like the 40k Inquisition would be good twist.

Gw have been pretty open that Order does not equal good which is why you've forces like the Daughters of Khaine who are almost more blood thirsty and blood magic driven than Vampires.

But yes having the Stormcast themselves fall from grace and become as fanatical as blood-crazed elves - now that's a nasty twist for many in the Realms looking to fight off Chaos whilst also just survive themselves. It also creates loads of inroads for factions like Nagash to sink his claws in. For a City of Sigmar to reach out to the Ossiarchs for help (and offer them their bones) over asking for the Stormcast. Even if it might mean that the Ossiarchs reap more and more each time until the city has to start chopping legs off the living to keep up the delivery of enough bones for the tithe.

We already have this with the knights Excelsior.
In the Malign Portents short story. "To Truly Excel" they butcher a whole town they were supposed to save because they might be tainted by Nurgle.
The White Reaper is a particularly unpleasant character who has appeared in many stories. The stormkeep in Excelsis is a dungeon who prisoners are tortured for information.
They've also clashed with the Hallowed Knights over their differing methods.

Nagash has already just outright stolen Stormcast souls and turned them into undead minions.

I have a hazy memory of one BL novel in which one poor soul was bounced about two or three times.

As Chikout says, not all SCE are noble warrior heroes. That’s long established.

They have the opportunity for character with their memories (even first forged SCE don’t always have them), the personality degradation and dealing with either the folks they new in mortal life or coming back centuries after everyone they knew is dead.

SCE were already a sort of mirror image of Chaos Warriors. Both imbued with power by their god, but whereas Chaos warriors chose to seek more more and eternal war…Stormcast just get it thrust upon them.

I think most will accept it, but Sigmar isn’t being a goodey two-shoes by doing that to them.

Knight Excelsior is the extremist one while still fighting for the cause. While the new one "i'd like to speak to the manager" complain sound like they were fighting for themselves. Big oopsie from Sigmar for even having these people. The irony is that these guys losing their awful attitude through reforged is probably the best outcome.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
There's an idea in several fantasy books that Order is not good, Order can be oppressive, stifling and fanatical.

In 40k the Tyranids and Necrons are the ultimate 'Order' armies.

So a Stormcast army that behaves more like the 40k Inquisition would be good twist.

The D&D alignments Lawful Evil and Lawful Good can still both be very "orderly". But they're very different from each other.

But then again, what exactly does "Order" mean in Age of Sigmar? It basically means, "Opposing Chaos and Destruction, and not Death." Even a group that's fairly unregimented but still opposes Chaos and Destruction can fall into the Order classification because the game's faction system doesn't have anywhere else to put them.

Eumerin wrote:
But then again, what exactly does "Order" mean in Age of Sigmar? It basically means, "Opposing Chaos and Destruction, and not Death." Even a group that's fairly unregimented but still opposes Chaos and Destruction can fall into the Order classification because the game's faction system doesn't have anywhere else to put them.

What do any of the factions mean? Chaos and Destruction are pretty similar.

Order is pretty much anyone you can reliably make a bargain with, and reasonably expect them to keep to it. They may also come to your aid out of shared interest without negotiation or request

Nagash is Nagash. One can make an entirely Good Faith bargain with his minions and Mortarchs. And said minion or Mortarch may do so in genuine good faith for the time being. But Nagash can and will exert his absolute control as and when he feels it necessary.

Destruction? Yeah no. Not so much. You could try to channel their rampages away from you and into your enemy. But for the most part they’re just intent on having a fight or a feast. Sometimes both.

All very broadly speaking of course.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

Eumerin wrote:
But then again, what exactly does "Order" mean in Age of Sigmar? It basically means, "Opposing Chaos and Destruction, and not Death." Even a group that's fairly unregimented but still opposes Chaos and Destruction can fall into the Order classification because the game's faction system doesn't have anywhere else to put them.

What do any of the factions mean? Chaos and Destruction are pretty similar.

Order is civilization.

Death is Nagash over all.

Destruction is wanton war and ruin.

Chaos is domination over everything.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

Order is civilization.

Death is Nagash over all.

Destruction is wanton war and ruin.

Chaos is domination over everything.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

Order is civilization.

Death is Nagash over all.

Destruction is wanton war and ruin.

Chaos is domination over everything.

Khorne worshippers and beastmen are pretty destructive though, ain't they? And Nagash demands an eternal, unchanging order under his rule. The four names are just so similar, not as distinct as they could have been.

Personally, I'd have gone with Law to oppose Chaos, rather than Order. That's what Solkan stood for!

Chaos - represents those factions who worship the Chaos Gods (if they know it or not). Remember Great Horned Rat is a Chaos God now so even the skaven are fully chaos followers now (though interestingly their souls don't go into the Warp but into their own Afterlife in the Realm of Death - one of the few that Nagash hasn't managed to conquer)

Destruction represents those more primal forces and factions. They are often very warlike, tribal and won't build huge cities or civilizations as we'd understand them. They can form very large settlements, but there's always that tribal undertone and that warlike element to their races at large.

You could argue that the greatest element is that they are often nomadic and not sedentary civilisations.

Note individuals within these races can freely live, trade, ally and work with Order and Death factions.


Death - factions who are ultimately all bound to Nagash. Even if they don't want to be - eg the majority of Vampires. Interestingly even the Flesheaters are in here and they are "technically" not controlled by Nagash - though he can kind of twist them to point them in the right direction, but he can't use his will upon them the same as he can others.
At the other end of the scale you've the Ossiarchs who are built to his designs and whilst they have free will, they are built for his intentions so even whilst free they do as he would want when he's not imposing his will upon them.

Order - every faction that establishes a generally sedentary lifestyle. Builds cities, manages the land, establishes civilizations. Even the Everqueen does all those things even though her peoples might be some of the more nomadic for certain groups.

Importantly these factions also ally directly with Sigmar in his fight against chaos.
Destruction and Death both fight against Chaos as well, but neither one bows or allies long term with the Stormcast and Sigmar. They can and will do so freely in instances, but as a whole faction and at the very top "GOD" end, they don't.



I don't like the idea of doing it based on if you could make a deal with them. There are Orruks you can make very reliable deals with; there are Daughters of Khaine who will backstab you for their own gain at the drop of a hat.

2 new commemorative series minis available online only from tomorrow to 29th April

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/25/celebrate-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-with-two-commemorative-edition-miniatures-only-on-warhammer-com/

Well that’s bad timing I rarely order direct but my O&G order would have got me Tzane for free.

Oh, so now these two finally appear. They must have been sitting in the warehouse waiting for the last eighteen months at least.

I like the greenskin. Sigmarine would be better with a helmet on.

Is there a name/subtype for that orc style as opposed to the really bulky gorilla WHFB style?

edit: Is the orc subtype/subfaction "Kruleboy"? I remember seeing a release with that style (don't know if it was an army box or a faction set for one of the smaller skirmish games) a while back.

edit 2: Found it. Looks like it was both with a box release in that style for Warcry under Kruleboyz and similar gangly orruks for AOS under orruk warclans.

Yes Kruleboyz are an AoS faction.

I'd only chase the Knight-Arcanum if they were wearing a helmet, which any Stormcast should have on at all times. Thankfully I have two models of the female version, so I'm not too bothered...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/25/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-heres-whats-changing-in-the-new-edition/

 lord_blackfang wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/25/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-heres-whats-changing-in-the-new-edition/

They told that they will tell...not today

"streamlined army building" I'm honestly not sure how you can streamline it much more its already really simple!

The command point system, eh - I've been getting back into 40K recently and so far command points is one of my least favourite mechanics to learn in the game. They are powerful and they do impact the game, but they also feel annoying to learn because they are another layer of information that doesn't pop up on the unit cards/unit pages.

The app lists them all (and you can't "star/favourite" them to list the few that you decide you want to use pregame that work with the army you've got) so you've got ones that work for your army and those that don't. In addition If you use bools and physical cards then they aren't on the cards and they are in different places in two reference books (codex and core rules).


They just feel cumbersome and like they'd be a lot easier parcelled out as abilities to units to enable during the game.

 Overread wrote:
"streamlined army building" I'm honestly not sure how you can streamline it much more its already really simple!

The command point system, eh - I've been getting back into 40K recently and so far command points is one of my least favourite mechanics to learn in the game. They are powerful and they do impact the game, but they also feel annoying to learn because they are another layer of information that doesn't pop up on the unit cards/unit pages.

The app lists them all (and you can't "star/favourite" them to list the few that you decide you want to use pregame that work with the army you've got) so you've got ones that work for your army and those that don't. In addition If you use bools and physical cards then they aren't on the cards and they are in different places in two reference books (codex and core rules).


They just feel cumbersome and like they'd be a lot easier parcelled out as abilities to units to enable during the game.

It's much cut back now compared to what was on offer a year ago at least.

Dudeface wrote:

 Overread wrote:
"streamlined army building" I'm honestly not sure how you can streamline it much more its already really simple!

The command point system, eh - I've been getting back into 40K recently and so far command points is one of my least favourite mechanics to learn in the game. They are powerful and they do impact the game, but they also feel annoying to learn because they are another layer of information that doesn't pop up on the unit cards/unit pages.

The app lists them all (and you can't "star/favourite" them to list the few that you decide you want to use pregame that work with the army you've got) so you've got ones that work for your army and those that don't. In addition If you use bools and physical cards then they aren't on the cards and they are in different places in two reference books (codex and core rules).


They just feel cumbersome and like they'd be a lot easier parcelled out as abilities to units to enable during the game.

It's much cut back now compared to what was on offer a year ago at least.

Oh very true they've cut back a lot, though part of me worries that its just so they will expand it with campaign books and so forth

Doubling down on double turn?

Haters gonna hate.