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The beastman thing is just baffling.

Why not just keep them in both and have them act as the 'daemons' of this edition- the cross game faction. (like daemons did back in WFB/40k of old)

Let them flog some round to square movement trays (money), flog some extra battle tomes (money), flog some extra game specific character kits (money) and have people able to dive into both games for what they will feel is more of a bargain than buying multiple different armies.

Instead we get this mess and a GW that don't seem to know what they really want to do with any of their games.

Having collected a huge beastman army but never gotten around to painting it (from classic blisters to AoS boxsets) I'm half tempted to paint it up, enter it into armies on parade on a mix of round and square bases titled 'Displaced beasts and where to put them'

 Mallo wrote:
The beastman thing is just baffling.

Why not just keep them in both and have them act as the 'daemons' of this edition- the cross game faction. (like daemons did back in WFB/40k of old)

Let them flog some round to square movement trays (money), flog some extra battle tomes (money), flog some extra game specific character kits (money) and have people able to dive into both games for what they will feel is more of a bargain than buying multiple different armies.

Instead we get this mess and a GW that don't seem to know what they really want to do with any of their games.

you can complain a lot about this choice, but "GW doesn't know what they want to do" is just straight up untrue. this is a very direction-oriented choice to be making, and one with a specific logic behind it: they want their games to be separate. they know what they're doing and are going about it in a direct way. we can debate over whether it's good or not, but saying that GW doesn't know what they want to do is just wrong. they know what they want to do, and they're making clear what they want to do: keep games separate

 Mallo wrote:
The beastman thing is just baffling.

Why not just keep them in both and have them act as the 'daemons' of this edition- the cross game faction. (like daemons did back in WFB/40k of old)

Let them flog some round to square movement trays (money), flog some extra battle tomes (money), flog some extra game specific character kits (money) and have people able to dive into both games for what they will feel is more of a bargain than buying multiple different armies.

Instead we get this mess and a GW that don't seem to know what they really want to do with any of their games.

Having collected a huge beastman army but never gotten around to painting it (from classic blisters to AoS boxsets) I'm half tempted to paint it up, enter it into armies on parade on a mix of round and square bases titled 'Displaced beasts and where to put them'

I feel like Beastmen have been teetering on the edge of being purged from every system for a long time now. It seems like this is their last chance before the axe finally falls on them.

 Mallo wrote:
The beastman thing is just baffling.

Why not just keep them in both and have them act as the 'daemons' of this edition- the cross game faction. (like daemons did back in WFB/40k of old)

Let them flog some round to square movement trays (money), flog some extra battle tomes (money), flog some extra game specific character kits (money) and have people able to dive into both games for what they will feel is more of a bargain than buying multiple different armies.

Instead we get this mess and a GW that don't seem to know what they really want to do with any of their games.

Having collected a huge beastman army but never gotten around to painting it (from classic blisters to AoS boxsets) I'm half tempted to paint it up, enter it into armies on parade on a mix of round and square bases titled 'Displaced beasts and where to put them'

They make most of their sales by the big boxes and starter sets. By not allowing you to use the same army in both games, they have a chance to sell you another big box. All the extras you mention make peanuts in comparison, because the people who buy it already have a full army. It's better in their minds to have a chance of selling something that will make someone collect a full new army.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:


I feel like Beastmen have been teetering on the edge of being purged from every system for a long time now. It seems like this is their last chance before the axe finally falls on them.

I feel like as much as this sucks, they have not been shy with beasts in the chaos factions. Tzaangor inclusion might be a running joke for the Tzeentch boxsets among the fans, but I don't think it's something I ever expected to see! Same with Slaangors in Hedonites.

We just need Khornegors and Pestigors for the full quad, and a "Felgor Ravagers" equivalent for Slaves to Darkness.

As someone said previously, its pretty wild that the Vanguard Chamber isn't included in this purge. They're older and objectively worse models than the Sacrosanct minis.

Khagra's Ravagers getting the axe is pretty random as well, but I guess that's always been the case with WH:U warbands. Its a solid choice to buy for alt character models for both an Exalted Hero of Chaos in Khagra and a Chaos Sorcerer with the added bonus of 2 Warrior sculpts.

 nels1031 wrote:
As someone said previously, its pretty wild that the Vanguard Chamber isn't included in this purge. They're older and objectively worse models than the Sacrosanct minis.

Probably sell more. Or some redone sacrosanct models will be part of the new release.

 nels1031 wrote:
As someone said previously, its pretty wild that the Vanguard Chamber isn't included in this purge. They're older and objectively worse models than the Sacrosanct minis.

Maybe they thought that wizards are not what they want from Sigmarines both thematically and mechanically?

I am floored with how large a swathe they took out from AoS. If I had built a Beasts or Bonesplittaz army, I'd be raging. Glad to see those figures aren't vanishing, but it's still a shock to have so many drop at once, especially the Stormcast and Warcry warbands. I know they aren't new at this point, but they're significantly more recent than the Skaven units that are being replaced.


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 Overread wrote:
What I don't get is GW has the Dark Elf army sitting right there in cities of Sigmar doing NOTHING with them. The only thing they did was a token "build dark elf army expansion" once with the Daughters of Khaine. Otherwise that whole army has sat in utter limbo. Why take BoC out but leave the Dark Elf force in.

Agreed. This would have made way more sense. Maybe their concern was that it would require DoK units to come too and they don't want to drop them from AoS? It seems like the separation of games is way more important to them than almost anything else.


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leopard wrote:
nicer to see most of the sigmarines they pushed through the mortal realms series and earlier starter sets getting squatted

really leaves a feeling of "why bother?" to the idea of getting anything when its going to get wiped, likely to be replaced with something essentially the same but with a totally different name

Agreed. It makes me very nervous to invest in games larger than Warcry or Kill Team. Losing one unit would suck. Losing a whole army would be way worse.

I mean let's be honest, the Sacrosanct can be used as proxies for most things in the list anyway. Sequitors are just robed liberators with a fancier looking hammer. It's how i'll be using mine.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I mean let's be honest, the Sacrosanct can be used as proxies for most things in the list anyway. Sequitors are just robed liberators with a fancier looking hammer. It's how i'll be using mine.

And Liberators are Liberators too. We know there's new Prosecutors too.

I expect sacrosanct will eventually come back with reworked models, but probably with some significant unit design differences to differentiate them further so they aren't just "the same units you had befire, but with robes".

 The Phazer wrote:
Yeah, but you have to expect that DE will be removed from AOS and move back to TOW as soon as they release the second half of the COS range this edition. It's maybe just a year further away.

Not at all. Half the DE model range is tied up in Daughters of Khaine, and they aren't going anywhere. The likely future for the CoS DE range is that they get split off to form the Umbraneth or whatever, likely with some fairly direct resculpts of several of the units (Executioners and Black Guard specifically seem likely to get the Blood Knight/Kroxigor treatment).

Hopefully the Skaven kits all do get replaced for the sake of TOW players. Bonesplittaz are also presumably heading there even if it doesn't explicitly say so.

Rumor is that skaven are getting resculpted stormvermin and clanrats in AoS. The idea that they will be backportef into TOW seems to be supremely wishful thinking, especially given they just purged an entire faction from AoS to prevent crossover with TOW. The message on all this should be loud and clear that legacy factions will stay legacy.

 Mallo wrote:
The beastman thing is just baffling.

Why not just keep them in both and have them act as the 'daemons' of this edition- the cross game faction. (like daemons did back in WFB/40k of old)

It's not baffling at all. It's been widely expected and rather extensively rumored.

And even daemons aren't really cross-game anymore. There are AoS only daemons now and playing daemons in AoS requires you to buy a number of non-daemon models if you really want to be successful. It's been pretty clear for several years now that cross-compatibility is not something gw wants to support (for numerous reasons) and they've been taking steps to minimize and eliminate it.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
As someone said previously, its pretty wild that the Vanguard Chamber isn't included in this purge. They're older and objectively worse models than the Sacrosanct minis.

Maybe they thought that wizards are not what they want from Sigmarines both thematically and mechanically?

that the "reset" for AoS is necessary not because of the rules changes but because the background change as well and you cannot have old book with different background around was a point discussed
that 2nd Edi units are gone, with 1st Edi units being made new would fit into that, as what was shown fits more with the very first version

Sigmar Lied, buying into AoS because with this game your armies are save for the future and won't be cut is not true at all

Dudeface wrote:
I don't get why people are pulling their old world plans simply because a range doesn't exist concurrently in both? It's been glaringly obvious for a long time they don't want shared kits.

If you wanted beasts for old world then this might actually be a good thing, bigger boxes, cheaper per head and any contemporary kits stay that way.

Agreed.

I am building a BoC army for ToW and I'mm happy with the news.

The Stormcast range trim was long overdue.

I feel for the small number of Beasts players (although, they are certainly greater in number than Fyreslayer players; nobody likes Fyreslayers), but I think the range is much better suited for the Old World. Get those discounted BoC vanguard boxes while they're still available.

 Scottywan82 wrote:
Agreed. It makes me very nervous to invest in games larger than Warcry or Kill Team. Losing one unit would suck. Losing a whole army would be way worse.

I have 30+ doe styled Ungors in various stages of converting, six custom minotaurs and a box full of scrounged up kits for the eventual Gors, all for what was supposed to be a Slaaneshi themed BoC army.

I suppose I should be glad I didn't actually put all that much effort into it yet.

I can't say I'm shocked at all about Bonesplitterz and Beastmen, but it's no less a gakky maneuver.

Same with getting rid of all the Sacrosanct stormcast, which were actually cool; the ugly 1st edition ones I don't care about.

As always though the problem is ignorant people who will look at Legends and say "this isn't allowed at all" when it's just not allowed in tournaments.

I mean the Stormcast news isn't necessarily something out of left field. Their range is rather bloated but it also has the effect of nuking my whole army :(

That being said I imagine they will be back just with newer sculpts...although now I have no reason to really start painting my 2nd edition box. As for the the Beastmen, they are at least in a good place in TOW and I imagine some kind of Beastmen will come back to AoS but I imagine they will be radically different than what they are now.

Now the Boneplitterz is the odd one as, while they are in the Ravening Hordes book, they aren't a separate entry. It kind of feels like a last minute change since they weren't properly included in the TOW release.

The Skaven stuff and Warcry Warbands was all going to happen at one point. Since Skaven are getting an AoS refresh and those Warbands weren't going to be around forever. They honestly just felt like a way to pad out the Slaves to Darkness book.

The warcry ones I don't mind as much, as I'd prefer the "unique" warbands to remain in Warcry and not bleed over to AOS.

Just re-base your savage orcs and beastmen back onto squares *forehead*

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Scottywan82 wrote:
Agreed. It makes me very nervous to invest in games larger than Warcry or Kill Team. Losing one unit would suck. Losing a whole army would be way worse.

I have 30+ doe styled Ungors in various stages of converting, six custom minotaurs and a box full of scrounged up kits for the eventual Gors, all for what was supposed to be a Slaaneshi themed BoC army.

I suppose I should be glad I didn't actually put all that much effort into it yet.

Play them as Darkoath marauders and the minotaurs as ogroid Theridions. Sure, it sucks to loose your faction, but this is really close. Closer than my attempts to play GSC after 2nd edition 40k and the 3rd edition Citadel Journal list...

So all these almost brand new (in terms of plastic kit sculpts) sigmarines are being retired not just from production but also from the rules? I could see retiring models (especially if a new sculpt is obviously coming) but not in just a couple years. Sigmarines in general aren't even a decade old as a concept, right? Can people use them as standins officially for other flavor of the month faux-latin variants?




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 His Master's Voice wrote:
They actually killed Beastmen.

That's a really, REALLY gakky thing to do to people in the year of our Lord 2024.

gakky enough that I probably won't bother with Beastmen in TOW, despite having big plans for them.

The Stormcast mass-purge is disturbing mainly because they're the poster children for the entire game/range but at least they have years worth of minimally distinct for the purposes of trademarking variants to pick up the slack. I'd guess that the beastman range is probably much harder hit in terms of proportion. I just don't get why they'd cull so many customers/players voluntarily from their ranks when just publishing some generic rules with simple upgrades for variants would do. You could literally token (life)support them forever with a pdf of a dozen pages every edition.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I feel like Beastmen have been teetering on the edge of being purged from every system for a long time now. It seems like this is their last chance before the axe finally falls on them.

Indeed. I remember there were rumors supposedly from hastings on The Herdstone forum that Wood Elves and BoC wouldn't make the transition to AoS.

Maybe thats the way armies are going... discarded after a few years.

Well explicitly, we already know that there will be new Prosecutors, Liberators, and more - many of these will be covered by resculpts.

Paladins, Judicators, and Castigators all are similar to models from the 3rd edition line and can be replaced by them. All the random heroes are just chonkers - expect resculpts for many.

The big surprise one for me was Aventis Firestrike, who may just get a less weird model, similar to how I fully expect to see a new Astreia, as she was recently killed in the fluff so is thematically ready for a new model as well - they might even just make her be that bird riding model in the new starter box shown in the trailer.

"Your existing battletome is now useless, and also your army collection is being moved to legends". Hmmm. It feels like this is going to be Age of Sigmar: "Sheriff-of-Nottingham" Edition...

Quite horrified as that Stormcast list is almost my whole army collection. Thankfully its mostly made up of the part-work magazine purchases, so it was an affordable collection, and only intended for smaller casual games and solo-coop adventures.

If I were a Beasts of Chaos player I'd be bloody upset if The Old World wasn't my cup of tea. That said, the Beastmen rules are already available for The Old World(mostly?) and the same book contains rules for Orcs, Chaos warriors and Tomb Kings, and the rule books for The Old World might last longer than just a three-year-run for AOS. Movement trays also seem to be easily DIY'd...

Maybe it's a good sign they'll send the baby beard back to abyss for grand new one. The old lore about being naked for the god surely doesn't apply for the female Fyreslayer, so just stop pretending and give them pants.

 warboss wrote:
So all these almost brand new (in terms of plastic kit sculpts) sigmarines are being retired not just from production but also from the rules? I could see retiring models (especially if a new sculpt is obviously coming) but not in just a couple years. Sigmarines in general aren't even a decade old as a concept, right? Can people use them as standins officially for other flavor of the month faux-latin variants?




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 His Master's Voice wrote:
They actually killed Beastmen.

That's a really, REALLY gakky thing to do to people in the year of our Lord 2024.

gakky enough that I probably won't bother with Beastmen in TOW, despite having big plans for them.

The Stormcast mass-purge is disturbing mainly because they're the poster children for the entire game/range but at least they have years worth of minimally distinct for the purposes of trademarking variants to pick up the slack. I'd guess that the beastman range is probably much harder hit in terms of proportion. I just don't get why they'd cull so many customers/players voluntarily from their ranks when just publishing some generic rules with simple upgrades for variants would do. You could literally token (life)support them forever with a pdf of a dozen pages every edition.

No, all the first ed models there are getting resculpts and it's pretty guaranteed that every hero there is going to get a thundrestrike upgrade. I'd say less than half that what's actually pictured will be "gone" without a replacement.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 warboss wrote:
So all these almost brand new (in terms of plastic kit sculpts) sigmarines are being retired not just from production but also from the rules? I could see retiring models (especially if a new sculpt is obviously coming) but not in just a couple years. Sigmarines in general aren't even a decade old as a concept, right? Can people use them as standins officially for other flavor of the month faux-latin variants?




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 His Master's Voice wrote:
They actually killed Beastmen.

That's a really, REALLY gakky thing to do to people in the year of our Lord 2024.

gakky enough that I probably won't bother with Beastmen in TOW, despite having big plans for them.

The Stormcast mass-purge is disturbing mainly because they're the poster children for the entire game/range but at least they have years worth of minimally distinct for the purposes of trademarking variants to pick up the slack. I'd guess that the beastman range is probably much harder hit in terms of proportion. I just don't get why they'd cull so many customers/players voluntarily from their ranks when just publishing some generic rules with simple upgrades for variants would do. You could literally token (life)support them forever with a pdf of a dozen pages every edition.

No, all the first ed models there are getting resculpts and it's pretty guaranteed that every hero there is going to get a thundrestrike upgrade. I'd say less than half that what's actually pictured will be "gone" without a replacement.

Do you have an actual source for this or just trying to justify the unjustifiable?

I mean ending the production of older models to make way for newer sculpts is one thing. But moving their rules to Legends is a bit more suspect. Unless they plan on doing something drastically different with them and unit composition that the old models simply cannot do.