Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Like how we got monopose Necromunda kits with that update? Come on.

Dread Master wrote:
Like how we got monopose Necromunda kits with that update? Come on.

Yeah? The Necromunda kits are horribly limited, and they got worse as they went along.

Goose LeChance wrote:

Dread Master wrote:
ToW will hopefully open a window to a new edition of Mordheim. At minimum it will provide fodder for it.

Please no I don't want a monopose Warcry version of Mordheim with a bunch of disney cartoon characters and 20 DLC books. The rules are free and you can change the rules you don't like.

If you play an older version of a game that is no longer supported, then a new version is only a good thing. If you like the rules great. If you dont, its not stopping you from continuing to play that old version you love. If new models come with the new edition and you like them, you can possibly use them in that old version you are playing. If you dont like them, you still have your old models. And you have the satisfaction of knowing that people are wasting their money while you play a superior game with superior models.

I will likely buy some new models... but its been a while since I have played anything except RPGs and board games so the game itself is doubtful... but maybe.

Goose LeChance wrote:

Dread Master wrote:
Like how we got monopose Necromunda kits with that update? Come on.

Yeah? The Necromunda kits are horribly limited, and they got worse as they went along.

As opposed to what? Mordheim's vast range of hugely modular, customizable...metal miniatures? The plastics from the starter box were exceptional for the time in that regard but they were pretty much outliers in that range. I don't know where the idea that Necromunda's kits are limited comes from.

Don't get me wrong, I'd have plenty of reservations about what GW would do to the Mordheim setting/ruleset but having new kits is not one of them.

JimmyWolf87 wrote:

Goose LeChance wrote:

Dread Master wrote:
Like how we got monopose Necromunda kits with that update? Come on.

Yeah? The Necromunda kits are horribly limited, and they got worse as they went along.

As opposed to what? Mordheim's vast range of hugely modular, customizable...metal miniatures? The plastics from the starter box were exceptional for the time in that regard but they were pretty much outliers in that range. I don't know where the idea that Necromunda's kits are limited comes from.

Don't get me wrong, I'd have plenty of reservations about what GW would do to the Mordheim setting/ruleset but having new kits is not one of them.

Mordheim had a lot of 'borrowed' customization from people using the old-style regiment boxes, especially the Imperial Militia box, which were some of the greatest boxes of all time for parts and bits, but yeah, the actual made-for-mordheim minis were about average.

Tsagualsa wrote:

JimmyWolf87 wrote:

Goose LeChance wrote:

Dread Master wrote:
Like how we got monopose Necromunda kits with that update? Come on.

Yeah? The Necromunda kits are horribly limited, and they got worse as they went along.

As opposed to what? Mordheim's vast range of hugely modular, customizable...metal miniatures? The plastics from the starter box were exceptional for the time in that regard but they were pretty much outliers in that range. I don't know where the idea that Necromunda's kits are limited comes from.

Don't get me wrong, I'd have plenty of reservations about what GW would do to the Mordheim setting/ruleset but having new kits is not one of them.

Mordheim had a lot of 'borrowed' customization from people using the old-style regiment boxes, especially the Imperial Militia box, which were some of the greatest boxes of all time for parts and bits, but yeah, the actual made-for-mordheim minis were about average.

Necromunda: because they are, after Escher and Goliath (which still had limitations) they kept getting worse.

The Empire Militia were made for Mordheim then repurposed for Warhammer. But yeah most others were using modular fantasy kits since GW put little investment into Specialist games.

Goose LeChance wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

JimmyWolf87 wrote:

Goose LeChance wrote:

Dread Master wrote:
Like how we got monopose Necromunda kits with that update? Come on.

Yeah? The Necromunda kits are horribly limited, and they got worse as they went along.

As opposed to what? Mordheim's vast range of hugely modular, customizable...metal miniatures? The plastics from the starter box were exceptional for the time in that regard but they were pretty much outliers in that range. I don't know where the idea that Necromunda's kits are limited comes from.

Don't get me wrong, I'd have plenty of reservations about what GW would do to the Mordheim setting/ruleset but having new kits is not one of them.

Mordheim had a lot of 'borrowed' customization from people using the old-style regiment boxes, especially the Imperial Militia box, which were some of the greatest boxes of all time for parts and bits, but yeah, the actual made-for-mordheim minis were about average.

Necromunda: because they are, after Escher and Goliath (which still had limitations) they kept getting worse.

The Empire Militia were made for Mordheim then repurposed for Warhammer. But yeah most others were using modular fantasy kits since GW put little investment into Specialist games.

Re. the use of WH Fantasy kits, sure but that only really works for the Mercenaries and Skaven (and to an extent Undead given they also utilised some of the WHFB plastics). I certainly wouldn't say the use of re-purposed Fantasy kits was stretched to 'most others' whilst the actual Mordhiem range was still in production without it becoming a conversion. After the support went then naturally any amount of kitbashing did (and does) permeate people's collections. Everything else was fairly bespoke in terms of having a unique aesthetic.

I think I just fundamentally disagree that the Necromunda kits are limited.

JimmyWolf87 wrote:

Re. the use of WH Fantasy kits, sure but that only really works for the Mercenaries and Skaven (and to an extent Undead given they also utilised some of the WHFB plastics). I certainly wouldn't say the use of re-purposed Fantasy kits was stretched to 'most others' whilst the actual Mordhiem range was still in production without it becoming a conversion. After the support went then naturally any amount of kitbashing did (and does) permeate people's collections. Everything else was fairly bespoke in terms of having a unique aesthetic.

I think I just fundamentally disagree that the Necromunda kits are limited.

Certainly the new Necromunda kits are no more limited than the old ones - i think people have a serious case of rose-tinted glasses going on about how posable and flexible these were, it was mostly monopose, often metal bodies with a choice ranging from two to a handful of weapons. To go beyond that, you had to get out your metal saws and e.g. Space Marine / Guard weapon sprues, do headswaps and so on.

Seriously, take a look through the old catalogs, it's mostly no options or weapon swaps:

http://solegends.com/citcat1995-6/cat19956p107-02.htm

Compared to that, the new models are much more customizable, if only because there are dedicated upgrade and weapon packs for each gang.

The Specialist Games era stuff was not much better, they had a couple more metal weapon options and a handful of heads:

http://solegends.com/citcat2005spc/c2005spcp0019-02.htm

Does it...

Does it really matter...?

Does Goose saying 'necromunda kits are limited' really bring down the red mist for so many people...?

I don't think its a red mist so much as he's making a claim many don't find accurate both opinion and factually based. So they are correcting/providing their own angle.

Honestly if the team behind current Necromunda did a new Mordhiem or AoS equivalent I'd be REALLY happy.

Warcry has done great and is a lot of fun visually, but the kits are very single-option (with a leader model having one or two alternate parts). Having some customisable and upgrade compatible models in the fantasy line would be a lot of fun!

I never claimed old Necromunda models were modular.

The Necromunda plastics started to follow the same pattern as most new kits, where a static pose has at best 1 alternate build. One pose, two loadouts. It's not universal because the design was changing as they were released.

I own modular kits like Frostgrave, Bolt Action, and the Mercenaries. I know the differences between monopose, modular and all things in between. I understand the direction GW has gone so I personally have zero faith in a Mordheim reboot.

If those responses are interpreted as a 'Red Mist' of any variety then I don't know what to tell you.

The point I was more trying to make with regards to how posable modern Necromunda models are is that they're by and large (Delaque...less so....) far more modular than the majority of kits actually made specifically for Mordheim (with the noted exceptions of the Mercenaries and Skaven); not surprising given the bulk of those sets were metal.

What I would say is that we can't really hold them to the same standards when there's the change in material and just general advances in the technical element of kit manufacture factored in so yes; personally I'd be more than happy, in theory, with modern Mordheim sets with the same degree of customization as the rebooted Necromunda kits. Whether they'd be any good or not in terms of aesthetic or tone or ability to capture the feel of the originals is a different matter.

Knock it off, that has nothing to do with ToW N&R.

So Empire dev diary released on the 11th of January
Tomb Kings dev diary released on the 6th of February
,what do you think when is the March dev diary is going to drop and which faction will it be?

My bets that they are going to either this week or on the start of the next. Faction bet is either Bretonnia or High Elves.

Just for gigles lets see that possible factions for the game:

Empire
Tomb Kings
Bretonnia
Dwarfs
High Elves
Wood Elves
Orcs and Goblins
Vampire Counts
Warriors of Chaos
Beastmen
Kislev
Border Princes
Cathay?

Which means, if they do 1 faction a month then it will take a more then a full year for them preview all of them.

Dogs of War/Tilea are also an option

 herjan1987 wrote:
So Empire dev diary released on the 11th of January
Tomb Kings dev diary released on the 6th of February
,what do you think when is the March dev diary is going to drop and which faction will it be?

My bets that they are going to either this week or on the start of the next. Faction bet is either Bretonnia or High Elves.

Just for gigles lets see that possible factions for the game:

Empire
Tomb Kings
Bretonnia
Dwarfs
High Elves
Wood Elves
Orcs and Goblins
Vampire Counts
Warriors of Chaos
Beastmen
Kislev
Border Princes
Cathay?

Which means, if they do 1 faction a month then it will take a more then a full year for them preview all of them.

Didn't they already show Orcs and Goblins stuff along with Bretonnian stuff?

When the first map and snippets of info on TOW dropped, I was cautiously excited about a possible return of the old Warhammer Fantasy setting.

Using an era of internal strife in the Empire as timeframe would technically allow for an Empire - Empire starter à la Horus Heresy (YMMV).

They could then gradually introduce new factions, leapfrogging between good and evil :

Starter (Empire - Empire)

Chaos

Bretonnia

Orcs & Goblins

Dwarves

Skaven

...


With the current information and maps mentioning Cathay, Kislev, The Border Princes and other remote regions in more and more detail,
I think that the scope of the project is getting too big/ambitious and wonder what new miniatures we're effectively going to see..

Do we actually know if a monthly dev diary is even a thing?

 Just Tony wrote:

 herjan1987 wrote:
So Empire dev diary released on the 11th of January
Tomb Kings dev diary released on the 6th of February
,what do you think when is the March dev diary is going to drop and which faction will it be?

My bets that they are going to either this week or on the start of the next. Faction bet is either Bretonnia or High Elves.

Just for gigles lets see that possible factions for the game:

Empire
Tomb Kings
Bretonnia
Dwarfs
High Elves
Wood Elves
Orcs and Goblins
Vampire Counts
Warriors of Chaos
Beastmen
Kislev
Border Princes
Cathay?

Which means, if they do 1 faction a month then it will take a more then a full year for them preview all of them.

Didn't they already show Orcs and Goblins stuff along with Bretonnian stuff?

They showed Artwork, yes, but I think op is talking specifically about a "what are they up to currently" post about each faction, which the dev diaries have done about the Empire and the Tomb Kings. You're still kind of right, because the first post about Bretonnia did show us their rivalry with the Greenskins.

Without knowing the full scope/timespan of the setting I don't think we can do more than speculate on the potential names floating about at the time. Like, if we're getting a snapshot about 50 years prior to the Great War (as seems to be the case) then that's a lot more limiting than covering a couple of centuries or so of the build up. The Von Carstein Vampire Counts are all dusted at this point (or floating in a swamp) so will be interesting to see how they're handled (quite like the idea of their petty offspring involved in a Civil War of their own in Sylvania to try and claim the mantle).

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Do we actually know if a monthly dev diary is even a thing?

We don't know. There isn't even much of a pattern other than one per month. January 11 was in the third week of the month , February 6 in the second week of the month. The posts were made on a Wednesday and Monday respectively. The posts were four weeks apart, which if you were inclined to see that as the beginnings of a pattern, would put the next post in this week. Although at best that means going back to posting on Wednesday again since we've missed the Monday slot.

This is far from New Model Monday and Horus Heresy Thursday. We can't rule out that a new article drops any minute now, but considering how drawn out the Old World marketing has been so far, I don't think we should feel confident in GW's commitment to regular updates just yet.

I was thinking about this the other day. I think that some of the armies may look a bit different then they did in 6th and for sure 8th. While we will likely see the return of the War Wagon for the empire. Their are a real change we could see the return of older (discontinued) units return to the armies. My thought is that in different armies certain units have fallen out of fashion by the time the modern era came around. So the elves may see the return of Animal trainers (Beastmasters for the Dark Elves), Wood Elves may see Shapeshifters, Falconers and Zoats, or Dark Elves may see the return of Doom Riders (Knights on Elf Steeds) because the Dark Elves have not yet mastered the use of Cold Ones.

Since the return of the Regiments of Renown to AoS, it is possible that may also see old RoR return to the game as well, like the Red Redemption, Skarloc's Archers, and/or Mad Mula Akland's Death Commandos.

I'd love all those things to happen, Paymaster, but I'm not nearly as optimistic.

GW just haven't given us enough to go on.

 Paymaster Games wrote:
I was thinking about this the other day. I think that some of the armies may look a bit different then they did in 6th and for sure 8th. While we will likely see the return of the War Wagon for the empire. Their are a real change we could see the return of older (discontinued) units return to the armies. My thought is that in different armies certain units have fallen out of fashion by the time the modern era came around. So the elves may see the return of Animal trainers (Beastmasters for the Dark Elves), Wood Elves may see Shapeshifters, Falconers and Zoats, or Dark Elves may see the return of Doom Riders (Knights on Elf Steeds) because the Dark Elves have not yet mastered the use of Cold Ones.

Since the return of the Regiments of Renown to AoS, it is possible that may also see old RoR return to the game as well, like the Red Redemption, Skarloc's Archers, and/or Mad Mula Akland's Death Commandos.

Sounds like a great plan to me - also may have more appeal to GW as they are more "unique"

Hoping for just after the Great war as well as Kislev gets a vampire Tzarina

I really think that the time of three emperors, will likely cover the major conflicts that happened during that period and not just the Great War against Chaos ending in the Siege of Praag. The romance of the three kingdoms was book ended with the Yellow Turban Rebelion (a strong start) and Ended when Wu surrendered to Jin ( very weak ending). In between the bookends is the real and exciting campaigns and battles take place. The Battle of the Red Cliffs, the rise and fall of Lu Bu, the Battle of the Wu Shan Plains are where the real story of the Three Kingdoms is told. I see the Time of three Emperors as some thing very similar. The Vampire Wars, the Affair of the False Grail, The Fall of Mordhiem, the War of Sand and Snow are all stories are a very real part of the story of the Three Emperors and should be part of story before the climax at the Siege of Praag and Magus the Pious's ascension to the throne of the Empire.

JimmyWolf87 wrote:
Without knowing the full scope/timespan of the setting I don't think we can do more than speculate on the potential names floating about at the time. Like, if we're getting a snapshot about 50 years prior to the Great War (as seems to be the case) then that's a lot more limiting than covering a couple of centuries or so of the build up. The Von Carstein Vampire Counts are all dusted at this point (or floating in a swamp) so will be interesting to see how they're handled (quite like the idea of their petty offspring involved in a Civil War of their own in Sylvania to try and claim the mantle).

I truly believe that the Time of Three Emperors and subsequent Great War against Chaos is just one point in history they will have us visit with the Old World. I think that if the game is succesful, they might jump around to different events, like the vampire wars, or the war against Morghur or Waaagh! Gorbad. The Great War Against chaos is just an event in which so many different factions have a stake in;

- The Dark Elves invade Ulthuan during this period

- The Skaven Civil War is about to end

- Kraka Drak is going to become besieged

- the Red Pox will spread in Bretonnia

And many more things happen coinciding with the Great War.

 Segersgia wrote:

JimmyWolf87 wrote:
Without knowing the full scope/timespan of the setting I don't think we can do more than speculate on the potential names floating about at the time. Like, if we're getting a snapshot about 50 years prior to the Great War (as seems to be the case) then that's a lot more limiting than covering a couple of centuries or so of the build up. The Von Carstein Vampire Counts are all dusted at this point (or floating in a swamp) so will be interesting to see how they're handled (quite like the idea of their petty offspring involved in a Civil War of their own in Sylvania to try and claim the mantle).

I truly believe that the Time of Three Emperors and subsequent Great War against Chaos is just one point in history they will have us visit with the Old World. I think that if the game is succesful, they might jump around to different events, like the vampire wars, or the war against Morghur or Waaagh! Gorbad. The Great War Against chaos is just an event in which so many different factions have a stake in;

- The Dark Elves invade Ulthuan during this period

- The Skaven Civil War is about to end

- Kraka Drak is going to become besieged

- the Red Pox will spread in Bretonnia

And many more things happen coinciding with the Great War.

Some of those events sound like good opportunities to focus box sets/ releases on to expand past the Empire.

Kraka Dark would be a good opportunity to bring out norse dwarfs, even just as a warrior kit with characters. Brand new but always been in the setting. I'd love to see them in a modern plastic kit -always very fond of them in 1st and 2nd ed.Plus proper slayers/norse dwarf berserkers.

 KidCthulhu wrote:
I'd love all those things to happen, Paymaster, but I'm not nearly as optimistic.

GW just haven't given us enough to go on.

Yeah, I feel like they're going to stretch this out and keep giving original fans hope, but not sure they can really make what we'd all want. Despite the success of AoS, blowing up the Old World is still one of GW's biggest mistakes to me.

They learned from it, but it hasn't brought the setting we all knew and loved back...

 RiTides wrote:

 KidCthulhu wrote:
I'd love all those things to happen, Paymaster, but I'm not nearly as optimistic.

GW just haven't given us enough to go on.

Yeah, I feel like they're going to stretch this out and keep giving original fans hope, but not sure they can really make what we'd all want. Despite the success of AoS, blowing up the Old World is still one of GW's biggest mistakes to me.

They learned from it, but it hasn't brought the setting we all knew and loved back...

On the other hand, they have brought back several other things that people had been asking for, some of which were closer to memes than actual possible releases: Necromunda, Sororitas, Kroot, Arbites, GSC, Squats etc.

That at least does give me some hope that they are aware of the demand for WHF coming back and are taking it seriously. What remains to be seen is how strongly they are going to commit.