Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors. Pre orders. p.280.

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**triplegrim**

Looks good to me. A lot of usr to remember, but with Stillmanism as my guiding star I only need to recall a single army. Also think a lot a of this stuff will be tidied up with the release of bret army book.

Didnt like the armor bane on 6 to wound. It slows down the game for a very minor boost.

Cant wait for army selection, but since there was no Rare tag on the grail knights, I assume the imo brilliant 3 specials and 2 rares system is out in favor of a more or less 'take whatever you want' style army. A pity if so, as it makes armies more rock paper sciccors.

**tneva82**

nathan2004 wrote:
They moved things like formation types a unit can make and things like stomp away from all unit types have this rule to the actual datasheet that way they can restrict say Empire Knights from doing lance formation and so on. Realize that's probably not the best example but y'all hopefully get my point.

Warhammer fantasy has always been a lot of special rules to remember, which you did by playing a lot. It beats the current state of 40k where there are no USRs really and just a different name for the same thing over multiple factions or one faction has a better USR then the rest lol.

Army selection is next week's preview!

Double post

40k went to usr's in 10th. And hh2 and li. Gw went to usr side of pendulum swing now.

**Hulksmash**

tneva82 wrote:
nathan2004 wrote:
They moved things like formation types a unit can make and things like stomp away from all unit types have this rule to the actual datasheet that way they can restrict say Empire Knights from doing lance formation and so on. Realize that's probably not the best example but y'all hopefully get my point.

Warhammer fantasy has always been a lot of special rules to remember, which you did by playing a lot. It beats the current state of 40k where there are no USRs really and just a different name for the same thing over multiple factions or one faction has a better USR then the rest lol.

Army selection is next week's preview!

Double post

40k went to usr's in 10th. And hh2 and li. Gw went to usr side of pendulum swing now.

Meh, 10th 40k doesn't really have USR's. It has like 3 rules that they hand out but it has vastly more of the exact same rule named something different on multiple datasheets or rules that are insanely similar with one being slightly better (move 6" instead of d6") from datasheet to datasheet. This feels more like a return to true USR's. Which seems to be a specialist game thing thank goodness.

**stonehorse**

Not sure how I feel about the number of USR, yes I know Grail Knights are Uber Knights, and I am aware that a few of those USR are core rules (formations and such).

All that said I can not shake the feeling that GW's reluctantance to use dice other than the D6, handicaps them a lot, and thus they rely upon a geological layer of special rules to help make things stand out.

Just use a wider range of Dice GW! D10's won't hurt you!

**H.B.M.C.**

Just Tony wrote:
Special rules bloat? Check.

How is this special rules bloat? It's 75 USRs in the main book rather than a half-hearted attempt at a 20-25 USRs scattered around a rulebook and then literally over 1000 bespoke rules on unit cards. That's bloat, especially when so many of them are slight variations on the same rule or type of rule.

**lord_blackfang**

It does occur to me that the unit entry is missing any indication which book to look in for any given USR, the army book or the rulebook

(and if HH is any indication, each book also has USRs arbitrarily divided into several sections with no logic to speak of and some wildly creative alphabetization.)

**Baragash**

Presentation-wise, I think it would have been slightly better to list formation separately, or with base size if desperate to avoid an additional line, rather than have to scan the SR part of each entry.

**triplegrim**

Grail knight cost 38pts in the Old World.

Which is has done since 6th edition btw. I guess thats a sign the armies may stay the same size as 6th?

**RustyNumber**

I'm cautiously optimistic about the days of "go and double check the war beasts section and note their specific rules and THEN the USRs that are bolted onto them" are over.

Great to see a unit that is supposed to be legendarily powerful has a torrent of rules and specialness!

**Grail Seeker**

I’m not too worried about the USRs at this point. The Grail Knight should be the pinnacle of bretonnia. I expect other units to have less.

**Just Tony**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Just Tony wrote:
Special rules bloat? Check.
How is this special rules bloat? It's 75 USRs in the main book rather than a half-hearted attempt at a 20-25 USRs scattered around a rulebook and then literally over 1000 bespoke rules on unit cards. That's bloat, especially when so many of them are slight variations on the same rule or type of rule.

I'm used to 6th. Every unit entry or profile shown thus far is bloated by comparison.

And for those who've already rebased...

**nathan2004**

Who has rebased? The game is 2 months away, why not wait and just play oldhammer until then?

The converters and movement trays will be the way I go. I hope GW sells them to match the normal trays they plan on selling.

**H.B.M.C.**

I've been putting all my fantasy minis on non-euclidian bases!

**Just Tony**

nathan2004 wrote:
Who has rebased? The game is 2 months away, why not wait and just play oldhammer until then?

The converters and movement trays will be the way I go. I hope GW sells them to match the normal trays they plan on selling.

Look on any social media site, there are tons of rebasing threads. The Warhammer Fantasy subreddit aline is overflowing with them...

**kodos**

yeah, "rebasing" is the main thing for a lot of people for about half a year now, simply to have their collection up to date when the game drops although a lot of them are not going to plan on playing it (at least the reddit community is mostly collectors)

will be funny when new models come with the usual GW style of consistency to use whatever base size the designer thought fits best

but I have to say I am a little surprised that GW uses generic and old base sizes for the units.
30x60 and 40x60 are widely available because of their use in historical games

**Sotahullu**

Well only known thing is that 20mm are moving to 25mm ones. Beyond that, there is strong chance that there is some difference by unit rather then by type.

For example, Tomb King chariots could be on smaller bases then other ones by simply 1) Being "Light Chariots" (old moniker). 2) For easier manouvers for being a unit of chariots. 3) Wouldn't look good on bigger base.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Sod it. I can’t resist. A rare moan from me.

I hate the Bretonnian blessing thing.

Giving up first turn is presented as something heavy. An actual cost. But…it’s not. With an army of Cavalry, I’m not about to move up the board and make your life even easier when it comes to charging. So really, you get a nice Ward save, and I lose my first turn of movement.

Unless I get super jammy with my ranged attacks and spells? It’s an entirely one sided exchange. And having Last Turn is often a boon too, as you can do last minute charges, maybe pick off a now loan character etc.

Boo to this. Boo I say. Booooooooo!

**MaxT**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Sod it. I can’t resist. A rare moan from me.

I hate the Bretonnian blessing thing.

Giving up first turn is presented as something heavy. An actual cost. But…it’s not. With an army of Cavalry, I’m not about to move up the board and make your life even easier when it comes to charging. So really, you get a nice Ward save, and I lose my first turn of movement.

Unless I get super jammy with my ranged attacks and spells? It’s an entirely one sided exchange. And having Last Turn is often a boon too, as you can do last minute charges, maybe pick off a now loan character etc.

Boo to this. Boo I say. Booooooooo!

In 8th I generally agree with you, but maybe not so much in the old world. With give ground and FBIGO you need to have space behind your units to give ground into - so your opponent stepping forward even a little can double the distance between the back of their units and the edge of the board. That has value I would think.

**leopard**

as someone who has played Brets for quite some time, I love the blessing, the enemy is generally deployed such that they cannot shoot at me without moving up a bit due to the range being over 24", and if they stay still longbows can hurt them

so they will advance, if I go first I end up mid board, to maybe take a charge, or get peppered by arrows

if they go first they have to move up, perhaps allowing me to charge and dilute their firepower

plus as noted you get the last turn, there is essentially no real downside to it

**Commodus Leitdorf**

75 Universal Specials rules over 15 armies is not a lot frankly. Especially if they are all in one place it makes everything easier overall.

**Alpharius**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I've been putting all my fantasy minis on non-euclidian bases!

Very Lovecrafty of you!

**RaptorusRex**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I've been putting all my fantasy minis on non-euclidian bases!

So...spheres?

**Not Online!!!**

RaptorusRex wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
I've been putting all my fantasy minis on non-euclidian bases!

So...spheres?

Clearly he means non symetrical terrain shrunk down demanding bloodsacrifices and holding onto you if you pick the model up with tentacles.

**Sotahullu**

Well I started to wonder how some of the Empire units get treated. Outright removed, retconned or renamed?

Some of the fancier firearms and artillery was invented long after Siege of Praag, Colleges of Magic didn't exist, magic/sorcery/witchcraft was outright banned and States/Counts relied more on militia and mercenaries.

Weird enough, I think Steam Tanks were around.

**Scottywan82**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I've been putting all my fantasy minis on non-euclidian bases!

Mobius movement trays are the way to go.

**Lord Zarkov**

Sotahullu wrote:
Well I started to wonder how some of the Empire units get treated. Outright removed, retconned or renamed?

Some of the fancier firearms and artillery was invented long after Siege of Praag, Colleges of Magic didn't exist, magic/sorcery/witchcraft was outright banned and States/Counts relied more on militia and mercenaries.

Weird enough, I think Steam Tanks were around.

Might depend on the province, initial posts said there’d potentially be 4 Empire variants.

E.g. with Wizards Middenheim had a Wizard and Alchemist guild for over a millennium at this point and according to older sources Talabheim had a wizard college since the start of Ao3E and Marienburg potentially their sea wizards.

It’s only the Reikland supporting section (the most Sigmarite province) that is really anti wizards.

Repeater handguns, volley guns and hell storm rockets might be gone though, as presumably the hurricanium/luminark

**Overread**

With all the base change chatter this might be a campaign for those with a 3D printer to keep an eye on

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/avatars-of-war/ranknfile-omnibase-adapters-by-avatars-of-war

**chaos0xomega**

The luminark and hurricanum were explicitly inventions of the Imperial Colleges of Magic, so absent a retcon they wouldn't be present.

**Mr Morden**

Lord Zarkov wrote:
Sotahullu wrote:
Well I started to wonder how some of the Empire units get treated. Outright removed, retconned or renamed?

Some of the fancier firearms and artillery was invented long after Siege of Praag, Colleges of Magic didn't exist, magic/sorcery/witchcraft was outright banned and States/Counts relied more on militia and mercenaries.

Weird enough, I think Steam Tanks were around.

Might depend on the province, initial posts said there’d potentially be 4 Empire variants.

E.g. with Wizards Middenheim had a Wizard and Alchemist guild for over a millennium at this point and according to older sources Talabheim had a wizard college since the start of Ao3E and Marienburg potentially their sea wizards.

It’s only the Reikland supporting section (the most Sigmarite province) that is really anti wizards.

Repeater handguns, volley guns and hell storm rockets might be gone though, as presumably the hurricanium/luminark

Agreed - Reikland is the outlyer with not offically having Wizards guilds etc - Middenhiem was a centre of magical learning for most of its history and Talabheim, Marienburg and Nuln all had their own Guilds or schools. However it would also be good if they have have the priests and warrior priests of other Cults - esp Mymidia, Verena etc rather than just Sigmar, Sigmar, Sigmar - and of course new models for old players

**Lord Zarkov**

Mr Morden wrote:
Lord Zarkov wrote:
Sotahullu wrote:
Well I started to wonder how some of the Empire units get treated. Outright removed, retconned or renamed?

Some of the fancier firearms and artillery was invented long after Siege of Praag, Colleges of Magic didn't exist, magic/sorcery/witchcraft was outright banned and States/Counts relied more on militia and mercenaries.

Weird enough, I think Steam Tanks were around.

Might depend on the province, initial posts said there’d potentially be 4 Empire variants.

E.g. with Wizards Middenheim had a Wizard and Alchemist guild for over a millennium at this point and according to older sources Talabheim had a wizard college since the start of Ao3E and Marienburg potentially their sea wizards.

It’s only the Reikland supporting section (the most Sigmarite province) that is really anti wizards.

Repeater handguns, volley guns and hell storm rockets might be gone though, as presumably the hurricanium/luminark

Agreed - Reikland is the outlyer with not offically having Wizards guilds etc - Middenhiem was a centre of magical learning for most of its history and Talabheim, Marienburg and Nuln all had their own Guilds or schools. However it would also be good if they have have the priests and warrior priests of other Cults - esp Mymidia, Verena etc rather than just Sigmar, Sigmar, Sigmar - and of course new models for old players

Yeah, I’d be really surprised tbh if we don’t get Ulrican, Taalite and Manaanite priests for Middenheim, Talabheim and Marienburg factions respectively. Gives easy flavour for the factions and something new for GW to sell.