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I might be late to the party, but just saw the core box of Khemri.

Was starting to expect it, but these old ass plastic who are dated from Methuselah are really in....

For frag sake, what a disaster and alow effort affair

tneva82 wrote:

 Samsonov wrote:


Anyway, I would be interested to hear from all those posters who claimed the new Old World would just be dead in the water/on life support/only doing enough to protect IP/general doom-mongering.

They likely still claim it's vaporware or comes 2028 latest.

I mean they kept claiming not coming 2024 even when gw revealed 2024...

Yup that’s happening

Really looking forward to seeing the books.
Love the fantasy battle settning, and still take out the big 8th rulebook occasionally to look at the special scenarios and custom scenerys and stuff.
Will be cool to see some history about this era, and the flavour books will no doubt be mostly for giong more into the events and politics of the time that was.

Oh, people should totally hold their breath waiting for Cathay and ice girl Warcraft Kislev. I mean, I don't have to pay for their coffin.

One is still being perfectly reasonable being disappointed to learn that you will need to buy multiple redundant books even on release, but at the same time we're well past the point that this is a surprise. Games Workshop is a book seller who uses gigantic plastic diorama models (surrounded by little plastic models for them to kill) in order to sell those books. Indeed, just giving us two big army books and then an individual army book as well seems pretty restrained as a start. Eventually we'll have multiple magic books, yearly general's handbooks, campaign books, a quarterly Spike! The Old World magazine, and that's before they declare those first army books out of date, and re-publish them with updated rules that make the OP factions nerfed, and the nerfed factions OP.

There are two books that have all 9 core army lists, right?

Reading some of these posts I think I might have misunderstood.

there are 2 books for the 9 core army lists, and 2 more books to extend the first 2 factions with more army lists, more magic items and more spells (adding those for each of the core factions over time)

Yup. But, to play a given army, you do not need the soft backs.

Just your rulebook and either Ravening Hordes or Forces of Fantasy.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Yup. But, to play a given army, you do not need the soft backs.

Just your rulebook and either Ravening Hordes or Forces of Fantasy.

Yep, same as you don't need army books for 40k or Age of Sigmar.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Yup. But, to play a given army, you do not need the soft backs.

Just your rulebook and either Ravening Hordes or Forces of Fantasy.

Yep, same as you don't need army books for 40k or Age of Sigmar.

That's not the same though? The core army lists won't be replaced by anything.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Yup. But, to play a given army, you do not need the soft backs.

Just your rulebook and either Ravening Hordes or Forces of Fantasy.

Yep, same as you don't need army books for 40k or Age of Sigmar.

In what way?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Yup. But, to play a given army, you do not need the soft backs.

Just your rulebook and either Ravening Hordes or Forces of Fantasy.

Yep, same as you don't need army books for 40k or Age of Sigmar.

In what way?

Books for 40k are also advertised as "don't need them to play" as you can get the "core lists" from the DataCards and you do not need to Codex to play the game, they just add options for those who want more depth

so if the Journals are like the Codizes or like the Campaign books remains to be seen

Incredible how some are using such disingenuous arguments in order to defend GW. Let's stop kinding ourselves, the army books will be pretty much mandatory in order to play the game. Personally, it's not a big deal with me, as long as the dont start adding up books on top of books on top of books (but it's GW after all, so I'm not too optimisitic)

Well, that’s not true?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 streetsamurai wrote:
Incredible how some are using such disingenuous arguments in order to defend GW. Let's stop kinding ourselves, the army books will be pretty much mandatory in order to play the game. Personally, it's not a big deal with me, as long as the dont start adding up books on top of books on top of books (but it's GW after all, so I'm not too optimisitic)

How are they mandatory?

Some people are of course capable of thinking in less absolutist terms and can take the good with the bad or vice versa.

 nathan2004 wrote:
It’s not perfect and it was never going to meet some of your expectations but it’s something and not vaporware like some thought.

I set my expectations very low, and they still managed to fail to meet them. And it most certainly is a project that was vaporware for the majority of the four years since it was announced in panic, since mostly recycled models and a conglomeration of previous rulesets is all they've managed to create.

 nathan2004 wrote:
Let’s see how the game plays

Wait And See. Because playing the game magically causes reasonably priced new plastic kits and well thought-out rules to appear.

 nathan2004 wrote:
I like I only have to buy 2 books plus BRB since I have multiple armies.

Wouldn't it be nice if you just had to buy one book, regardless of how many armies you had? Because other games from smaller companies manage to do just that. How strange.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I wonder if one could maybe, I dunno. Hmm. OK. Here’s an idea. But brace yourself, because it’s more radical than a fundie in a Hawaiian shirt and shades, cap at the mathematically derived jauntiest of angles, on a skateboard, which is mounted to a surfboard, jumping over tattooed sharks…….

We could…talk to our opponent, and ask if they mind just sticking to the hardback books, until we each have our compendiums.

Right. I’ve got to go. The Sane And Resonable Police are almost certainly gonna be on their way.

Let me know how many people agree not to use a chunk of their army's rules, outside of your particular friend group. I imagine it will be similar to the numbers who would agree to play 40k with just the indices.

MaxT wrote:
GW releases 2 boxed armies

Consisting mostly of old models, some of which date back to the 90s - yet they will be priced as if contemporary. The definition of low effort, and certainly low investment.

MaxT wrote:
5 books

4 of which nobody wanted to see. Having to buy a separate book for a faction is an outdated concept by now - as is having two seperate books for faction army lists - just because Horus Heresy did it wrong doesn't mean every specialist game should follow suit. And please don't insult us both with the 'but you don't *need* the faction book to play' line, because it's been countered several times already.

MaxT wrote:
new plastic releases

A handful of character models. *Wow*. Not exactly impressive for the development time.

MaxT wrote:
new forgeworld releases

Given the price and quality issues associated with Forge World...I don't think that's much of a positive.

MaxT wrote:
and its still vapourware? Stop embarrassing yourself

They've had four years, and this is all they've produced? That's damning evidence that it *was* vaporware for a significant portion of the development time. Unless you're suggesting that trying to milk nostalgia with minimal investment of time and money was the intent from the first announcement? Because that's even worse.

The argument that they are mandatory is predicated on the idea that they will include additional magic items and the like that will be must-haves to be competitive with the army. There's validity to the standpoint, but that doesn't make them mandatory, it makes them essential - there's a difference. The only books that are truly mandatory are the Core book and the appropriate ravening hordes style book.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, that’s not true?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 streetsamurai wrote:
Incredible how some are using such disingenuous arguments in order to defend GW. Let's stop kinding ourselves, the army books will be pretty much mandatory in order to play the game. Personally, it's not a big deal with me, as long as the dont start adding up books on top of books on top of books (but it's GW after all, so I'm not too optimisitic)

How are they mandatory?

re-read my post

''pretty much'' mandatory

Pretty much mandatory because of imagined must take items?

And it's disingenuous to suggest the core army list that won't be invalidated is all you'll need because of these imagined must take items?

OK chaps.

Vorian wrote:
Pretty much mandatory because of imagined must take items?

And it's disingenuous to suggest the core army list that won't be invalidated is all you'll need because of these imagined must take items?

OK chaps.

Well, some of us paid attention to how these things work during the past 30 or so years.

Warriors of Chaos chads win again. One book. Heck yeah.

"Imagined must take items"??? What in Khorne name is that supposed to means?

And it's not only about fielding a competitive army. These books , besides the "imagined must take items" also introduce some new army composition rules and spells for the army. We all know that everyone fielding said army will buy the arcane journal of the army, no matter how disingenuous some are (after spending a few hundreds if not thousands bucks buying said army, and spending hours assembling and painting said army, nobody sane wouldn't spend a few more dollars to have all the rules associated with it).

As I said before, I'm ok with the profit model and I wouldn't mind buying these books if I played The Old World. Alas, there's no way in hell i'm paying GW prices for miniatures that were already terribly outdated when WHFB was discontinued, especially more with Para Bellum continually relasing some amazing plastic kits recently. It's very unfortunate, since I'm a huge WHFB fanboy, but it just seems like this was almost setup to fail.

By the way, am I right in thinking that GW aren't bothering to write a Vampire Counts book for Old World?

 vipoid wrote:
By the way, am I right in thinking that GW aren't bothering to write a Vampire Counts book for Old World?

They're supposed to be in the pdf

 vipoid wrote:
By the way, am I right in thinking that GW aren't bothering to write a Vampire Counts book for Old World?

Don’t worry if you’re more of a follower of Hashut or interpreter of the Great Plan – Legacy army list PDFs for the other seven factions from Warhammer Fantasy Battles will be available shortly after launch.

Including Vamps

 vipoid wrote:
By the way, am I right in thinking that GW aren't bothering to write a Vampire Counts book for Old World?

Correct, they’re one of the 9 factions with pdf rules only. Probably as they’re a major AoS faction, though lorewise there’s also that all the Von Carsteins are all dead in this time period.

MaxT wrote:
GW releases 2 boxed armies, 5 books, new plastic releases, new forgeworld releases and its still vapourware? Stop embarrassing yourself

GW: In two years we’ll sell you all new Old World armies with exciting new units. Our eyecatching headliners are Cathay and Kislev. Don’t you want Cathay and Kislev??

GW years later: Here are old skeletons and Brets with some new centerpieces. That’s what we sold you on, right?

Lord Zarkov wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
By the way, am I right in thinking that GW aren't bothering to write a Vampire Counts book for Old World?

Correct, they’re one of the 9 factions with pdf rules only. Probably as they’re a major AoS faction, though lorewise there’s also that all the Von Carsteins are all dead in this time period.

All the main Von Carsteins are dead or pretending to be, plenty of older vampires (the Carsteins are with the exception of Vlad are all very young vamps) across the world though in the other countries of the Old World and Kislev gets a vampire Tzarina after the Great War against Chaos is won.

 streetsamurai wrote:
"Imagined must take items"??? What in Khorne name is that supposed to means?

And it's not only about fielding a competitive army. These books , besides the "imagined must take items" also introduce some new army composition rules and spells for the army. We all know that everyone fielding said army will buy the arcane journal of the army, no matter how disingenuous some are (after spending a few hundreds if not thousands bucks buying said army, and spending hours assembling and painting said army, nobody sane wouldn't spend a few more dollars to have all the rules associated with it).

As I said before, I'm ok with the profit model and I wouldn't mind buying these books if I played The Old World. Alas, there's no way in hell i'm paying GW prices for miniatures that were already terribly outdated when WHFB was discontinued, especially more with Para Bellum continually relasing some amazing plastic kits recently. It's very unfortunate, since I'm a huge WHFB fanboy, but it just seems like this was almost setup to fail.

They are items that are imagined to be must take. None of us know what items are in the book, so we have no idea of the comparative strength compared to any of the core items (which we also don't know about).

The new books introduce Bretonnian Exiles and Errantry Crusades. If you want to play the core army then the normal book contains what you need.

My point of view is that I had hoped for a free Ravening Hordes type supplement, but that I'm okay paying for it - even if it's two books. What I don't like is that the book is so bloated with pictures and fiction. It'll be inconvenient to lug around.

The new army books... I suppose that's to be expected. I don't like them, because as others have said that's three books you'll have to consult. The main thing that drives me from GW games is the library growth - that's why I never got into Newcromunda. Way too many books to stay on top of.

My hope is that the core rules + compendium armies (including the PDFs) are enough to play satisfying games and I can find a group that's willing to stick to them.

What a load of delicious retro style Internet Forum Drama to accompany our retro wargame!