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2023/12/31 02:12:00
Subject: Re:Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors
Ahtman wrote: Considering the nature of the project I'm surprised so many people thought every old faction was going to get a full rule set and miniatures release.
Given that GW literally TOLD us what the plan was I'm surprised by this as well.
All these people have to do is read what GW has said. Instead they go off on wishlist tangents that only result in thier disappointment.
Likewise I've also been surprised by the # of times I've had to correct people concerning if faction xyz can be played.
Yes, I will be able to use my Skaven..... I know this because GW told me so.
Sure, you CAN.
The question being asked is, will we WANT to? Will they be even remotely competitive, or will need to play brilliantly just to pull a draw due to codex creep?
There shouldn't be codex creep at the start.
Later, maybe. But not when the game initially (re)launches.
I'm expecting TK and Bretonnia to be head and shoulders above, say, Dark Elves or Lizardmen who are only getting a PDF 'update'. The better to sell models.
This is the GW standard operating procedure.
CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done.
2023/12/31 03:02:40
Subject: Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors
I've been assuming a $300ish price on the big boxes, unless there's going to be any price consideration for the old models. I'd be happy with $250 for sure.
200-250 dollars sounds really optimistic IMO. That would be a guaranteed buy for me if that was the case. 300 is dodgy though cause the tax would push it closer to 320-330 bucks, harder to justify for such old models.
I do wish we had more info on base sizes though. As i'm sitting on some unbuilt empire state troops that I wouldn't mind preparing ahead of that factions release.
2023/12/31 05:11:13
Subject: Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors
Thargrim wrote: 200-250 dollars sounds really optimistic IMO. That would be a guaranteed buy for me if that was the case. 300 is dodgy though cause the tax would push it closer to 320-330 bucks, harder to justify for such old models.
I do wish we had more info on base sizes though. As i'm sitting on some unbuilt empire state troops that I wouldn't mind preparing ahead of that factions release.
I said screw it and am assembling the old models I have on their original bases. I'll either end up playing TOW or 6th ed so I'm splitting the difference and will have models based for both
Prometheum5 wrote: I've been assuming a $300ish price on the big boxes, unless there's going to be any price consideration for the old models. I'd be happy with $250 for sure.
Any and all price considerations for old models will just make the box more expensive than not, given the absurd pricing of Battle for Macragge atm
2023/12/31 08:24:11
Subject: Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors
Prometheum5 wrote: I've been assuming a $300ish price on the big boxes, unless there's going to be any price consideration for the old models. I'd be happy with $250 for sure.
Any and all price considerations for old models will just make the box more expensive than not, given the absurd pricing of Battle for Macragge atm
Seems they are doing 3rd and now 4th edition starter sets. Assault om black reach next year probably. I heard a rumor they trash the molds afterwards, which might bor not might be true.
Might be a sign of what could be coming for TOW with IoB and Battle of Blackfire pass though. Model reprints but no box, rules etc, and an insane price.
20 pages of introduction
131 pages of core rules
21 pages of army list & standard scenarios
117 pages of background
110 pages of miniatures
98 pages of narrative scenarios, campaigns, etc
33 pages of reference (which includes the Lores of Magic & magic items)
(May be off by the odd page)
Intro, Core, Army list & standard scenarios plus the reference section comes to 205 pages. Include the narrative & campaign stuff and you're at over 300 pages of "rules" for 8th. I expect TOW will be a little heavier in Core rules (thanks to the USRs) and the narrative scenarios, campaigns section could be entirely absent (that'll be for the future releases i expect) but at a glance it doesn't look totally off from the last WHFB release.
Nice to see some actual fact finding instead of the usual "as I remember" or "I reckon"s
Re; Models, I thought it was well known GW have maxed out their production in recent years hence why they never feel the need to drop prices/induce demand?
I got a load of old WDs for christmas. Even though I'm not really a WD kind of guy, the dozen issues from the late 90s are fascinating to me. Packed full of sales-bundles and how-to guides involving stuff not purchased from GW. Also illuminating that the minis were damned expensive back then too, if anything the value only became better in the 2000s, butt adjusted for inflation locally the prices aren't far off what they are now.
I went into waybackmachine and looked at gws early 2000s webpage to find some articles and pdfs on skaven and whatnot. If you look at the model pricing, its clear that warhammer was more or equally expensive then.
But, army sizes were smaller. So theres that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/12/31 08:30:29
Let the galaxy burn.
2023/12/31 09:02:01
Subject: Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors
chaos0xomega wrote: Anyone see anything about a supposed Spanish source claiming the new boxes will be €180?
only my own calculation from a few pages back based on the rumour that we see 30 model boxes with the HH price point and the leaked Khemri box
As this would put the total of models in the box somewhere between 280-330€ depending on how the sell the cavalry and with the usual 30-40% boxed discount you get 180-230€ box price
and 180€ with boxed discount for 20 year old models that are half a R&F army is not really cheap.
it is just cheap compared to current 40k and AoS model prices or ebay OOP collectors items (but compared to current 40k/AoS prices, building your own miniature production line, aka 3D print at home setup, is cheap as well and with the ~400€ per army price point it is also cheaper to just buy a printer with the result that you get better models as well)
PS: for the rulebook size, to put something to compare in
Kings of War Red Book has 288 pages, from which are 70 pages rules, 194 pages army lists for 27 armies, and the rest are other game modes, introduction etc.
the Green book comes with 156 pages of background in favour of less army lists
so 350 pages with 9 armies and 74 pages of background sounds reasonable for a GW rules system, though it would be very sort in background as this is usually the extensive part of the rulebooks but could be that they cut it because of the army lists
also GW writes rules in a way that they cover more pages than needed, like if just the rules are 50 pages they need a 100 pages in the book, so I expect ~150 pages for rules, 74 for general background which leaves 14 pages per army for 9 armies with 1-2 pages for army creation and information, leaving 12 pages for units with 1-3 units per page (based on how the profiles preview look) so ~24 units per army including heroes
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/12/31 09:14:41
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2023/12/31 10:17:41
Subject: Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors
chaos0xomega wrote: Anyone see anything about a supposed Spanish source claiming the new boxes will be €180?
only my own calculation from a few pages back based on the rumour that we see 30 model boxes with the HH price point and the leaked Khemri box
That would also make most units still in use via sigmar far cheaper. 30 gobbos for £82.50 atm, or a 40% discount to £50 and use some spare bases? Yes please.
2023/12/31 10:31:21
Subject: Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors
Gert wrote: Because Bretonnia and TK have been OOP for ages and have attained Nostalgia status greater than any other Old World race.
They were the only armies for TW: WH1/2 that couldn't be bought in any real sense until TW: WH3 came along with Kislev, Cathay, and Chorfs.
Ergo, sell the ones that have the most hype first then bring the rest back.
I don't think people are fully appreciating this in particular. Bretonnians and TKs have been OOP for longer than anything else. Their resale value on ebay is absurd. Getting them out first made by far the most sense because they will sell by the shedload.
That's GW's hope, one would assume. Me, I wouldn't know what to do with a shed full of old plastic skeletons. Lock it up tight and spare the world the horror of their existence, I guess.
I'm suppose new rules and maybe a few extra sales to people too impatient to wait for their preferred faction's release might give Tomb Kings a boost, but I'm not sure there is any reason for the army to sell massively better than when they were last available.
I can tell you multiple tomb king players are waiting to see what they price the warsphinx kit at. Original MSRP was something like $65 USD.
No doubt. The newer kits by themselves aren't an issue for the most part. I'm looking forward to being able to buy some Tomb Kings kits myself once more, mostly for conversions.
It's just the same concern I had during the 8th ed update. People won't be thrilled by the ancient core units and either won't consider the army at all or heavily lean into third party options. GW's sales are disappointing and they see no reason to invest in the army. And round and round it goes. 8th ed performance of Tomb Kings must have been abysmal for GW to squat the army half a year into AoS. To me it looks like GW makes the same dumb mistake all over again, and I'd rather if they didn't keep doing that to my favorite army.
Thargrim wrote: I do wish we had more info on base sizes though. As i'm sitting on some unbuilt empire state troops that I wouldn't mind preparing ahead of that factions release.
While I won't be held responsible for being wrong (I should be a politician ), I was under the impression that the one statement we got outside of individual unit previews was a blanket 20mm go up to 25mm. Maybe others can confirm or find the article with that statement.
So while it's not guaranteed and won't be until GW sells their own bases (or more likely the army books get leaked), I believe Empire foot soldiers are reasonably safe to build right now compared to many other units.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
2023/12/31 10:48:29
Subject: Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors
chaos0xomega wrote: Anyone see anything about a supposed Spanish source claiming the new boxes will be €180?
only my own calculation from a few pages back based on the rumour that we see 30 model boxes with the HH price point and the leaked Khemri box
That would also make most units still in use via sigmar far cheaper. 30 gobbos for £82.50 atm, or a 40% discount to £50 and use some spare bases? Yes please.
not like the old models are still sold in their 20 model boxes for 35€ were going to 30 models for 55/60€ would be a light price increase for the Goblins, not a discount
and the newer ones won't be made available for TOW
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2023/12/31 11:57:12
Subject: Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors
chaos0xomega wrote: Anyone see anything about a supposed Spanish source claiming the new boxes will be €180?
only my own calculation from a few pages back based on the rumour that we see 30 model boxes with the HH price point and the leaked Khemri box
That would also make most units still in use via sigmar far cheaper. 30 gobbos for £82.50 atm, or a 40% discount to £50 and use some spare bases? Yes please.
not like the old models are still sold in their 20 model boxes for 35€ were going to 30 models for 55/60€ would be a light price increase for the Goblins, not a discount
and the newer ones won't be made available for TOW
My bad, I thoughts they'd dropped them to 10s. Likely a box of 40 then.
2023/12/31 12:05:50
Subject: Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors
My bad, I thoughts they'd dropped them to 10s. Likely a box of 40 then.
20 Night goblin stabas cost 45$ on the aos website. I doubt they will be any cheaper on the tow site, even if sold in a box of 40.
You can't sell 20 gobos for 45$ and 40 gobos for 55$ on the same website.
Sure they can, they'll just put it down to having a deep discount on a larger box.
This is the same company/webstore that until recently was selling Thundrik's Profiteers, a five man warband containing an Aether-Khemist, for €20. At the same time a single Aether-Khemist was being sold for €24.
There was also the time they sold the fireslayer magmadroth for about the same cost as the fireslayer start collecting set (magmadroth + a unit + champions).
GW are a law unto themselves when it comes to pricing.
There was also the time they sold the fireslayer magmadroth for about the same cost as the fireslayer start collecting set (magmadroth + a unit + champions).
GW are a law unto themselves when it comes to pricing.
Cutting for specifics, but they didn't actually sell you the Magmadroth. It was the same thing happening with the Carnosaur+SC: Seraphon.
There was a note at the bottom of the product info that you would receive the SC rather than the individual item.
2023/12/31 14:37:46
Subject: Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors
A return to some of the simple 'regiment' molds would be great to get people built and playing quickly, but they'd be even older models and look even more out of place next to the modern plastics they're adding.
It's possible that some start collecting box equivalent might be made available for the other seven 'supported' armies in the first few months of TOWs launch.
2023/12/31 17:47:45
Subject: Re:Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors
), I was under the impression that the one statement we got outside of individual unit previews was a blanket 20mm go up to 25mm. Maybe others can confirm or find the article with that statement.
