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 Gimgamgoo wrote:
I used to play with VC, Lizardmen, Ogres and Dwarf armies.
3 of those armies are now TOW'd (or squatted if you still prefer the phrase).

However GW are going to give me a gakky unplaytested pdf rules for those 3 armies, not support them, but tell me that I need to rebase the lot.
Lol GW, I'll stick with several other rulesets I have and ignore this release.

Frankly given you can’t use them in tournaments there’s no point rebasing.

I’m intending to build a new TOW army, but in the meantime I’m planning to use my old VC army which is certainly not being rebased.


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 The Phazer wrote:
It's definitely disappointing that the missing factions are not getting proper rules support. I accept they can't do models etc for everything at once, but really the other armies really should get supported army lists that are tournament legal.

I really hope they reconsider that, it's a big black mark against what I consider to be a very solid release so far otherwise.

Let’s be honest this decision has nothing to do with production capabilities and everything to do with them not wanting you to build TOW armies with only AoS models.

Other than Chaos Dwarfs, the legacy factions can all be built in their entirety with models sold for AoS.

tneva82 wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cyel wrote:
I am currently watching the battle report from GW and it doesn't look too great. It looks like they move units pretty quickly and then the dice autopilot turns on and they roll and roll and re-roll, and roll again, charge range, fear tests, hits, wounds, saves, regeneration, wards... Looks terribly boring tbh to see a game where players are needed for like 20% of playing time, and the rest of the time they just perform the menial role of being living random number generators for the game.

Ah yes. Game is obviously so much better when there's zero dice roll and everything seen at list creation time. Tournament players wet dream.

All of what you said was in FB before. Gee shock horror having to roll to hit. Guess you would like "unit A does automatically Y damage" system.

Why bother putting models on table then? You can play 100000 games in hour. Just throw in army lists and you see who wins.

I think you must have misquoted me, your answer has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote.


As for the report, I've finished watching it and have more impressions. I know it's just a demo, but shouldn't a demo show off cool things you can do in the game? In this one I noticed a painful lack of interesting decisions, all moves were pretty much obvious and at no point did I feel players faced any real conundrum, where they needed to carefully consider several options to make the best choice for the situation.

In other words there were no moments of "Wow, that was a neat move! I never saw it coming! So smart!".

And yeah, I know GW developers are known for being pretty bad players at their own games but still - cool moments weren't engineered by players, just dictated by dice.

Lord Zarkov wrote:

Let’s be honest this decision has nothing to do with production capabilities and everything to do with them not wanting you to build TOW armies with only AoS models.

Other than Chaos Dwarfs, the legacy factions can all be built in their entirety with models sold for AoS.

This theory has not held water ever since they released core/legacy factions. You have warriors of chaos and beastmen of chaos in both systems. You have night goblins and spider goblins in both systems. You have dwarfs in both systems. You have Trees in both systems.
And some new players might naturaly buy Lumineth realm-lords if they want to collect high elves, you know, because there are no high elves to buy atm. The real reason might be in the title of the game, the "Old world" but than why are vamps and rats missing. Maybe one undead faction is enough and they chose the nostalgic bone bois. And maybe Skaven really were off limits because they are gonna be the poster bois of 4th AoS edition.

Narrative report from MiniWarGaming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkqXFins_rc&t=3s

They do the narrative battle in the Bret's Arcane Journal, and at 02 minutes 55 seconds mention that the 'Bretonnian Exiles' army of infamy combines 'Bretonnian stuff and Empire stuff,' so the Bombard almost certainly is a great cannon kitbash.

 Ahtman wrote:

Grail Seeker wrote:
You've seriously never been in a professional environment where the scope expands due to success and profit?

For the record, I am in the camp that if we ever see the legacy armies it won't be for years, but if The Old World is successful enough to warrant investment there will come a time where bringing in the legacy (or kislev/cathay) is the juiciest fruit still on the tree, and I doubt shareholders will demand they ignore it because of an article written in early 2024.

Have you seriously never been in a professional environment where something failed to meet expectations? Or just barely did? Everything you're predicting is pure speculation on a dream of a success that hasn't happened yet.

I think you missed the context of the discussion being a hypothetical about if the other factions will come back if the launch is sucessful.

Or the fact that I used the word "if".

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:

Lord Zarkov wrote:

Let’s be honest this decision has nothing to do with production capabilities and everything to do with them not wanting you to build TOW armies with only AoS models.

Other than Chaos Dwarfs, the legacy factions can all be built in their entirety with models sold for AoS.

This theory has not held water ever since they released core/legacy factions. You have warriors of chaos and beastmen of chaos in both systems. You have night goblins and spider goblins in both systems. You have dwarfs in both systems. You have Trees in both systems.
And some new players might naturaly buy Lumineth realm-lords if they want to collect high elves, you know, because there are no high elves to buy atm. The real reason might be in the title of the game, the "Old world" but than why are vamps and rats missing. Maybe one undead faction is enough and they chose the nostalgic bone bois. And maybe Skaven really were off limits because they are gonna be the poster bois of 4th AoS edition.

We've been hearing rumors that beastmen and spider goblins would be removed from AoS for a while now. Chaos Knights and Chosen have stormcast helmets sculpted onto them as trophies, seems likely that gw brings back old kits for TOW. There's a number of units that seem to have been cut from TOW, no reason to think marauders and some others won't be cut from AoS. Only 2 tree kits remain in AoS, dryads seem like they are likely to get phased out and sent to TOW. Dwarfs in Cities of Sigmar seem likely to be cut just like most of the Empire range was. Etc. For the most part the writing here is on the wall, saying the theory holds no water just means you haven't been paying attention.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:
Narrative report from MiniWarGaming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkqXFins_rc&t=3s

They do the narrative battle in the Bret's Arcane Journal, and at 02 minutes 55 seconds mention that the 'Bretonnian Exiles' army of infamy combines 'Bretonnian stuff and Empire stuff,' so the Bombard almost certainly is a great cannon kitbash.

Bit more than an hour in, they confirm no more step up. In case that was still unclear.

Voss wrote:
Narrative report from MiniWarGaming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkqXFins_rc&t=3s

They do the narrative battle in the Bret's Arcane Journal, and at 02 minutes 55 seconds mention that the 'Bretonnian Exiles' army of infamy combines 'Bretonnian stuff and Empire stuff,' so the Bombard almost certainly is a great cannon kitbash.

Ah good to know!

Stone throwers (and artillery in general?) target the center of a unit. They went straight to placing the template and rolling scatter & misfire. That seems to be it (Guessing seemed to be obviously out, but I wasn't sure if some sort of mechanic would replace it).

Curious how cannons will work.


Well, the outcast wizard from Bretonnian Exiles rolls an extra die (and takes highest) for miscasts, but gets access to Dark Magic. That's... pretty interesting.

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:

Lord Zarkov wrote:

Let’s be honest this decision has nothing to do with production capabilities and everything to do with them not wanting you to build TOW armies with only AoS models.

Other than Chaos Dwarfs, the legacy factions can all be built in their entirety with models sold for AoS.

This theory has not held water ever since they released core/legacy factions. You have warriors of chaos and beastmen of chaos in both systems. You have night goblins and spider goblins in both systems. You have dwarfs in both systems. You have Trees in both systems.
And some new players might naturaly buy Lumineth realm-lords if they want to collect high elves, you know, because there are no high elves to buy atm. The real reason might be in the title of the game, the "Old world" but than why are vamps and rats missing. Maybe one undead faction is enough and they chose the nostalgic bone bois. And maybe Skaven really were off limits because they are gonna be the poster bois of 4th AoS edition.

1) see everything chaos0xomega said.

2) Slaves to Darkness are almost certainly going to receive a cull of things like marauders that’ll get directly used in TOW like CoS just did. As chaos0xomega noted, the new chaos warriors have AoS helmets and the like on them so we’ll probably get the old 6th/7th Ed models back.
Dwarfs in CoS have been cut back to a few characters and the Ironbreakers and hammerers/longbeards boxes. Possibly we’ll get the 6th Ed metals back (also the core units came with masks that were supposed to represent longbeards) or possibly they’ll get cut later. In any case most of the Army has to be built with TOW kits
Beastmen are the one oddity, but perhaps they’ll just cut the faction from AoS entirely. They’ve not really done much with it.

At the point where CoS has had a massive cull of things that are coming for TOW (but pointedly not the dark elves which aren’t), where GW are recasting the 6th Ed metal Treeman rather than using the 8th Ed plastic that’s used for AoS, and where all bar 1 of the factions they cut from TOW are ones with a big presence in AoS; the writing is very firmly on the wall.

chaos0xomega wrote:
We've been hearing rumors that beastmen and spider goblins would be removed from AoS for a while now.

What was the last time a full faction supported by their own rules supplement was removed from a core game? Chaos Dwarves?

There's a que on the webstore *checks notes* TWELVE HOURS before pre-orders go live in the UK.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
There's a que on the webstore *checks notes* TWELVE HOURS before pre-orders go live in the UK.

The queue system hits every region.

Presumably because they're just about to go live in NZ.

MaxT wrote:
The hurricanum is an area where GW can’t win:

OMG the Hurricanum is in, it’s a massive retcon to exist in this time period, GW doesn’t care about lore, I quit, I hate GW

OMG the hurricanum is out, GW don’t care about the models I have, I quit, I hate GW

GW chose to use a different time period for their Old World setting. If they have a no win scenario, it’s one of their own making.

Lord Zarkov wrote:


1) see everything chaos0xomega said.

2) Slaves to Darkness are almost certainly going to receive a cull of things like marauders that’ll get directly used in TOW like CoS just did. As chaos0xomega noted, the new chaos warriors have AoS helmets and the like on them so we’ll probably get the old 6th/7th Ed models back.
Dwarfs in CoS have been cut back to a few characters and the Ironbreakers and hammerers/longbeards boxes. Possibly we’ll get the 6th Ed metals back (also the core units came with masks that were supposed to represent longbeards) or possibly they’ll get cut later. In any case most of the Army has to be built with TOW kits
Beastmen are the one oddity, but perhaps they’ll just cut the faction from AoS entirely. They’ve not really done much with it.

At the point where CoS has had a massive cull of things that are coming for TOW (but pointedly not the dark elves which aren’t), where GW are recasting the 6th Ed metal Treeman rather than using the 8th Ed plastic that’s used for AoS, and where all bar 1 of the factions they cut from TOW are ones with a big presence in AoS; the writing is very firmly on the wall.

Good points. Here are some counter points:
0) They were going to cull/revamp CoS either way. If TOW was comming or not.
1) You are taking a lot of kits out of AoS just for the sake of splitting the systems. What if Dryads/spider goblins are selling good in AoS?
2) Still leaves Night goblins and beastmen (also stank) in both systems so again why limit some factions but not others?
3) Those new plastic dwarfs are comming to TOW because we have seen them in pictures and stamps.
4) Demons of Chaos have always been in two systems.
5) Will GW not sell more ogres if people from both systems can buy them. Bigger market for them?

It is still a big taboo for GW to just cut armies that people have paid for. But they are doing it more and more and I am sure they have great ideas for new fantastical factions for AoS that would be much more interesting to produce and sell than gakky old Beastmen.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

MaxT wrote:
The hurricanum is an area where GW can’t win:

OMG the Hurricanum is in, it’s a massive retcon to exist in this time period, GW doesn’t care about lore, I quit, I hate GW

OMG the hurricanum is out, GW don’t care about the models I have, I quit, I hate GW

GW chose to use a different time period for their Old World setting. If they have a no win scenario, it’s one of their own making.

They could simply have not made an old world game at all, then it's not a no-win, but the second they chose to cash in, they couldn't please everyone.

Is this going to be massively out of stock everywhere in terms of 3rd party retailers?

Garrac wrote:
That said, Queek wasn't around, he starts kill-killing when Belegar is already old.

Queek is in his mid-30's when he died in the End Times and was suffering from old age because the average Skaven lifespan is notoriously short wthout access to Skalm.

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:

Lord Zarkov wrote:


1) see everything chaos0xomega said.

2) Slaves to Darkness are almost certainly going to receive a cull of things like marauders that’ll get directly used in TOW like CoS just did. As chaos0xomega noted, the new chaos warriors have AoS helmets and the like on them so we’ll probably get the old 6th/7th Ed models back.
Dwarfs in CoS have been cut back to a few characters and the Ironbreakers and hammerers/longbeards boxes. Possibly we’ll get the 6th Ed metals back (also the core units came with masks that were supposed to represent longbeards) or possibly they’ll get cut later. In any case most of the Army has to be built with TOW kits
Beastmen are the one oddity, but perhaps they’ll just cut the faction from AoS entirely. They’ve not really done much with it.

At the point where CoS has had a massive cull of things that are coming for TOW (but pointedly not the dark elves which aren’t), where GW are recasting the 6th Ed metal Treeman rather than using the 8th Ed plastic that’s used for AoS, and where all bar 1 of the factions they cut from TOW are ones with a big presence in AoS; the writing is very firmly on the wall.

Good points. Here are some counter points:
0) They were going to cull/revamp CoS either way. If TOW was comming or not.
1) You are taking a lot of kits out of AoS just for the sake of splitting the systems. What if Dryads/spider goblins are selling good in AoS?
2) Still leaves Night goblins and beastmen (also stank) in both systems so again why limit some factions but not others?
3) Those new plastic dwarfs are comming to TOW because we have seen them in pictures and stamps.
4) Demons of Chaos have always been in two systems.
5) Will GW not sell more ogres if people from both systems can buy them. Bigger market for them?

It is still a big taboo for GW to just cut armies that people have paid for. But they are doing it more and more and I am sure they have great ideas for new fantastical factions for AoS that would be much more interesting to produce and sell than gakky old Beastmen.

You're assuming that the old sculpts like goblins, dryads etc won't get resculpts that fit them more into AoS and the old stuff gets kicked back.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
We've been hearing rumors that beastmen and spider goblins would be removed from AoS for a while now.

What was the last time a full faction supported by their own rules supplement was removed from a core game? Chaos Dwarves?

Besides removing the WHOLE CORE GAME of whfb they usualy just remove older models than whole factions. I think you are right that Chaos dwarfs and potentialy Squats for 40k were the last armies squated. Maybe you can count Bretonnia and TKs because they did not transition to AoS. There are rumors that Tomb Kings were squated on accident. Because they were rushing to transition to AoS and simply forgot/no time to adapt the TKs.

Interested to see if they do a new model for Alarielle's mum or if the High Elves book is after her assassination.

Hoping that the army lists are pure 6th ed - lots and lots of lore friendly and different stuff.

Well, the outcast wizard from Bretonnian Exiles rolls an extra die (and takes highest) for miscasts, but gets access to Dark Magic. That's... pretty interesting.

Hopefully the human wizards can have pretty much any lore (not High, Nehekhara)


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WorldEdgePlayer wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
We've been hearing rumors that beastmen and spider goblins would be removed from AoS for a while now.

What was the last time a full faction supported by their own rules supplement was removed from a core game? Chaos Dwarves?

Besides removing the WHOLE CORE GAME of whfb they usualy just remove older models than whole factions. I think you are right that Chaos dwarfs and potentialy Squats for 40k were the last armies squated. Maybe you can count Bretonnia and TKs because they did not transition to AoS. There are rumors that Tomb Kings were squated on accident. Because they were rushing to transition to AoS and simply forgot/no time to adapt the TKs.

Kislev went in and out of the Empire books.

It's happening people - the GW Queue system is live!

Good lord, i'm in the New Zealand page for curiousity and 3 ushabti are nearly $200 and 3 grail knights are $120. I was vastly underestimating when i compared them to the middle-earth resins and metals. Also it's really goddamn weird that all the core is locked in the big box. If that goes out of stock, it's literally impossible to get started until they come back again.

Lord Zarkov wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
I used to play with VC, Lizardmen, Ogres and Dwarf armies.
3 of those armies are now TOW'd (or squatted if you still prefer the phrase).

However GW are going to give me a gakky unplaytested pdf rules for those 3 armies, not support them, but tell me that I need to rebase the lot.
Lol GW, I'll stick with several other rulesets I have and ignore this release.

Frankly given you can’t use them in tournaments there’s no point rebasing.

I’m intending to build a new TOW army, but in the meantime I’m planning to use my old VC army which is certainly not being rebased.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Phazer wrote:
It's definitely disappointing that the missing factions are not getting proper rules support. I accept they can't do models etc for everything at once, but really the other armies really should get supported army lists that are tournament legal.

I really hope they reconsider that, it's a big black mark against what I consider to be a very solid release so far otherwise.

Let’s be honest this decision has nothing to do with production capabilities and everything to do with them not wanting you to build TOW armies with only AoS models.

Other than Chaos Dwarfs, the legacy factions can all be built in their entirety with models sold for AoS.

Didn't this happen in 40k also where they cut most Heresy stuff out that previously could be used in 9th edition? Maybe they want all their product lines to be separate and distinct from each other as part of their business vision moving forward and that's what changed the direction with AoS/TOW?

Lord Zarkov wrote:

Klickor wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:


They were also pretty clear that those factions *won't* be in the narrative. They were very directly explicit about that point. Why you would argue that they will be when they directly stated they won't is baffling.

So they will never be mentioned anywhere ever in the background? So Chaos Demons don't exist at all in the old world now? Lizardmen and Dark Elves in the new world are just completely wiped from the map? No skaven or ogres that will ever come into contact with any of the main factions? I don't understand why you think that is the case.

Not being part about the ongoing narrative doesn't mean that they are completely gone. They can still have 0 novels or supplements that have any of these factions at the forefront without them being erased from the background. There are no plans for them having a significant role in the near future but that is hardly a large obstacle to give them a full release in a couple of years if the game is popular and that might come with or without a shift in the focus of the narrative.

The game might not even be called "The Old World" at that point but just WFB 10th edition or with the second edition of "The Old World" the name will change meaning from pointing to the specific area that is called "the old world" to mean the world that existed before the end times and incorporate anything that was in WFB. Not like any of GWs games have ever changed before in what scope they have so why would it be 100% true for all eternity for this one?

There’s pretty much no reason for Lizardmen or Dark Elves to appear ’on camera’ if they’re focusing on the Old World continent and not going to the new world. DE might get a mention as to their impact on HE if they ever actually get to the GWAC, but otherwise there’s really no reason for them to appear.
Ditto Skaven who are fighting their civil war. Might get some oblique references wrt the Blighted Marshes, but again no reason to be on camera.

Ogres as a racial grouping could well show up as mercenaries and the like, or within the Empire (like in 4th), but the Ogre Kingdoms themselves are miles away from where the narrative is set and again has no real reason to show up, no one relevant borders them until Cathay shows up.

Dark Elves raid Bretonnia and The Empire on a not infrequent basis. They're not the centre piece of any Old World based stories but they definitely interact. Skaven might be fighting their Civil War but it's very easy to imagine the odd raiding party heading above ground for resources or to escape rivals. Chaos Daemons obviously could easily appear in this period, ditto Vampires - Necrarch, Strigoi, Lahmians and Blood Dragons would all be present in the Empire/Bretonnia at this period, there's even likely to be von Carsteins even if they're laying low after the Vampire Wars. With the exception of the Lizardmen (who even in WHFB always had sketchy reasons for interacting with anything in the Old World) and Chaos Dwarfs you can very very easily get these factions to work within the broad parameters of what TOW is supposedly going to be. If Cathay can be worked into the game and we know it's going in some form at some point, given the fact they've even created and publicised TOW style maps for Cathay, then there's no reason these factions can't work, they've got a damn sight more reason to interact with TOW than Cathay.

I suspect it's simply business decisions, mixed with vague lore reasons (which can easily be retconned) that have resulted in most of these factions being missing. If the rumours are true about Skaven headlining AOS 4ed, then that's probably reason enough for GW to hold off on them returning to TOW to prevent confusion and to maximise AOS Skaven sales and then double dip when they make a return to TOW 3-4 years down the line.

 nathan2004 wrote:

Lord Zarkov wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
I used to play with VC, Lizardmen, Ogres and Dwarf armies.
3 of those armies are now TOW'd (or squatted if you still prefer the phrase).

However GW are going to give me a gakky unplaytested pdf rules for those 3 armies, not support them, but tell me that I need to rebase the lot.
Lol GW, I'll stick with several other rulesets I have and ignore this release.

Frankly given you can’t use them in tournaments there’s no point rebasing.

I’m intending to build a new TOW army, but in the meantime I’m planning to use my old VC army which is certainly not being rebased.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Phazer wrote:
It's definitely disappointing that the missing factions are not getting proper rules support. I accept they can't do models etc for everything at once, but really the other armies really should get supported army lists that are tournament legal.

I really hope they reconsider that, it's a big black mark against what I consider to be a very solid release so far otherwise.

Let’s be honest this decision has nothing to do with production capabilities and everything to do with them not wanting you to build TOW armies with only AoS models.

Other than Chaos Dwarfs, the legacy factions can all be built in their entirety with models sold for AoS.

Didn't this happen in 40k also where they cut most Heresy stuff out that previously could be used in 9th edition? Maybe they want all their product lines to be separate and distinct from each other as part of their business vision moving forward and that's what changed the direction with AoS/TOW?

Yes it did.

As I said, the writing is in the wall.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Londinium wrote:

Lord Zarkov wrote:

Klickor wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:


They were also pretty clear that those factions *won't* be in the narrative. They were very directly explicit about that point. Why you would argue that they will be when they directly stated they won't is baffling.

So they will never be mentioned anywhere ever in the background? So Chaos Demons don't exist at all in the old world now? Lizardmen and Dark Elves in the new world are just completely wiped from the map? No skaven or ogres that will ever come into contact with any of the main factions? I don't understand why you think that is the case.

Not being part about the ongoing narrative doesn't mean that they are completely gone. They can still have 0 novels or supplements that have any of these factions at the forefront without them being erased from the background. There are no plans for them having a significant role in the near future but that is hardly a large obstacle to give them a full release in a couple of years if the game is popular and that might come with or without a shift in the focus of the narrative.

The game might not even be called "The Old World" at that point but just WFB 10th edition or with the second edition of "The Old World" the name will change meaning from pointing to the specific area that is called "the old world" to mean the world that existed before the end times and incorporate anything that was in WFB. Not like any of GWs games have ever changed before in what scope they have so why would it be 100% true for all eternity for this one?

There’s pretty much no reason for Lizardmen or Dark Elves to appear ’on camera’ if they’re focusing on the Old World continent and not going to the new world. DE might get a mention as to their impact on HE if they ever actually get to the GWAC, but otherwise there’s really no reason for them to appear.
Ditto Skaven who are fighting their civil war. Might get some oblique references wrt the Blighted Marshes, but again no reason to be on camera.

Ogres as a racial grouping could well show up as mercenaries and the like, or within the Empire (like in 4th), but the Ogre Kingdoms themselves are miles away from where the narrative is set and again has no real reason to show up, no one relevant borders them until Cathay shows up.

Dark Elves raid Bretonnia and The Empire on a not infrequent basis. They're not the centre piece of any Old World based stories but they definitely interact. Skaven might be fighting their Civil War but it's very easy to imagine the odd raiding party heading above ground for resources or to escape rivals. Chaos Daemons obviously could easily appear in this period, ditto Vampires - Necrarch, Strigoi, Lahmians and Blood Dragons would all be present in the Empire/Bretonnia at this period, there's even likely to be von Carsteins even if they're laying low after the Vampire Wars. With the exception of the Lizardmen (who even in WHFB always had sketchy reasons for interacting with anything in the Old World) and Chaos Dwarfs you can very very easily get them to work within the broad parameters of what TOW is supposedly going to be. If Cathay can be worked into the game and we know it's going in some form at some point, given the fact they've even created and publicised TOW style maps for Cathay, then there's no reason these factions can't work, they've got a damn sight more reason to interact with TOW than Cathay.

They *can* be made to work yes, but GW *don’t want* them in the game, so they’ve framed the setting in such a way that it’s not that odd for them not to appear (DE on another continent pretending they’re not a problem and preparing for their invasion of Ulthuan; Skaven absorbed in their civil war; Von Carsteins all dead; etc). It’s really as simple as that.

Interestingly, Walach Harkon is fairly prominently on GW’s interactive map, so it’s possible that some individual vampires might appear in some way that isn’t leading Vampire Count armies. Maybe an Army of Infamy for either the Empire or Bretonnia?

Wait, hold up, why is the Bret box direct only?

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Wait, hold up, why is the Bret box direct only?

It might be a regional thing? I've seen at least one price sheet with the retailer stocking prices and it looked like they were being charged the regular cost for normal stock, not Direct Only

Still strange and the queues not long, it was instant access a couple of minutes ago.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
We've been hearing rumors that beastmen and spider goblins would be removed from AoS for a while now.

What was the last time a full faction supported by their own rules supplement was removed from a core game? Chaos Dwarves?

Err... I mean there's a number of factions that had battletomes that don't technically exist anymore because they were folded into other things, so... not too long ago? Technically speaking there would still be beastmen in AoS as tzaangors and slaangors are AoS units and not getting TOW rules - if they take that avenue then one would assume an expansion of khorngors and pestigors to round it out and this a new distinct flavor for AoS beasts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:
.
4) Demons of Chaos have always been in two systems.

If you haven't noticed this has started becoming untrue. There's a number of dae.on units which are AoS only now. Likewise the existing Daemon range doesn't work with 30k without proxy ingredients.

5) Will GW not sell more ogres if people from both systems can buy them. Bigger market for them?

That's a bold assumption, one which it seems GW might not agree with based on the strict separation between 40k and HH that they've recently forced. GW may sell more ogres, but it'll be because people are buying them so they can get away with having only one army for two systems, instead of needing to buy two. That's an obvious loss for GW, as they lose the opportunity to sell a player a second army.

It is still a big taboo for GW to just cut armies that people have paid for. But they are doing it more and more and I am sure they have great ideas for new fantastical factions for AoS that would be much more interesting to produce and sell than gakky old Beastmen.

It's really not that much of a taboo as you think it is, especially when it comes to AoS. GW hasn't been cutting full armies outright, what they have been doing is folding armies together and then cutting units from them, in the process eliminating entire collections from usability. If you had an empire or high elf army that you brought into Age of sigmsr when the game launched, you're probably not very happy these days as very little if any of your models are still technically fieldable.



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 nathan2004 wrote:

Didn't this happen in 40k also where they cut most Heresy stuff out that previously could be used in 9th edition? Maybe they want all their product lines to be separate and distinct from each other as part of their business vision moving forward and that's what changed the direction with AoS/TOW?

In short, yes.


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 Londinium wrote:


I suspect it's simply business decisions, mixed with vague lore reasons (which can easily be retconned) that have resulted in most of these factions being missing. If the rumours are true about Skaven headlining AOS 4ed, then that's probably reason enough for GW to hold off on them returning to TOW to prevent confusion and to maximise AOS Skaven sales and then double dip when they make a return to TOW 3-4 years down the line.

100% business decisions, but you are a hopeless optimist if you think GW is going to suddenly start supporting Skaven in TOW 3-4 years down the line. If you said 13-14 years, I'd agree that was a possibility, but the content plan for the next 3 years or so is relatively set in stone - if GW is saying what they are saying it's because there's a 0% chance of it in that timeframe, and beyond that timeframe it's also probably equally low because it's unlikely to be on their long term 10 year roadmap either.


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Lord Zarkov wrote:


Interestingly, Walach Harkon is fairly prominently on GW’s interactive map, so it’s possible that some individual vampires might appear in some way that isn’t leading Vampire Count armies. Maybe an Army of Infamy for either the Empire or Bretonnia?

We don't actually know that's Walach yet. There could be other Harkons. They did say we'd be seeing relatives of other characters weve seen before popping up, etc.


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 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Wait, hold up, why is the Bret box direct only?

Hopefully an error?

Haven't seen that before, it was presented as being a retail product til now (not sure where you saw its direct only, actually, I haven't seen that yet).


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 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Still strange and the queues not long, it was instant access a couple of minutes ago.

Low demand?

There's a lot of legacy players with existing that aren't rushing out to buy stuff right away, and many legscy players who ea t to throw money at it are seemingly somewhat disengaged from GWs way of doing business in 2024 and don't seem to understand how pre-ordering works or that things sell out, etc. I expect you'll see a lot of bitching in 2 weeks when folks are finding their local stores are sold out on release day.