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 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
It's not a big mainline game, it's specialist.

I disagree.

It's a mainline game, or rather, it has joined the mainline games.

It now sits with its own menu option alongside Age of Sigmar, 40k, LOTR and Horus Heresy. It's not under "Other Games", where everything from LI to WarCry to Blood Bowl to Necromunda to Kill-Team is kept.

Main studio handles 2 games. AOS and 40k.

Rest are by special game studio...With resources to show. Limited plastic kits they can release per year, less designers, less writers, less everything.

Aren't Warcry, Kill Team and Underworlds main studio? As evidenced by copious resources thrown at them willy nilly? SG are just the titles that were always under SG or FW.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Aren't Warcry, Kill Team and Underworlds main studio? As evidenced by copious resources thrown at them willy nilly? SG are just the titles that were always under SG or FW.

Yeah at least as of a couple of years ago they were done by a section of the main studio. Specialist Games is specifically part of Forge World.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Aren't Warcry, Kill Team and Underworlds main studio? As evidenced by copious resources thrown at them willy nilly? SG are just the titles that were always under SG or FW.

They are either main studio or "publications team" or "boxed games division" (or something like that). James M Hewitt mentioned them in some of his AMAs and interviews, not clear where they fit into the bureaucracy or if they are still around, nor whether they were a separate "studio" or a focused team within one of the other studios. They were the ones that did Shadow War: Armageddon as an attempted "feth you" to the specialist team that was working on Necromunda.

Hellebore wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

No One Important wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Grail Seeker wrote:
I hope that isn't the case. Bretonnia is a niche army. Empire being released sooner rather than later will be better for the game.

I suspect some of the new blood getting into the game with Brets will have buyers remorse as it is.

I mean a niche army that's basically your classic knights in shining armour army. You can't really get more classic fantasy humans without adding a Round Table and Robbin Hood

You mean Bertrand le Brigand & the Bowmen of Bergerac? They better come back.

Shame it's the wrong period in time for them - pretty sure they were meant to be active in the Old World as it came to its end.

Yeah, shame because the models and character concepts were a lot of fun.

Hugo le Petit and Gui le Gros were cool.

Almost as embarrassing to the world's foremost ricebowl-guarder of IP as the blatantly stolen Ark of the Covenant. Frankly, I was stunned that they gave us rules for the casket.

Mr Morden wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:

Tyel wrote:
I can sort of see Empire being last on the argument that they are - arguably - the faction that needs the most change for the era. And arguably has the most scope for expanding for the setting if you want to put emphasis on the 3 Emperors situation.

Maybe its a lack of imagination - but High Elves for instance feel kind of complete. You could do new versions of certain models - but nothing is obviously missing from the range. (Bring back both versions of the Tiranoc Chariot you cowards.)

I do feel a bit conflicted. All the effort put into new TK is great. But then you are left with the ancient sculpts for the basic troops. Which feels kind of weird and bad.

Considering the 3 emperors situation I do find it surprising a priest of Taal wasn't included. I do think Talabheim/Talabecland put a ban on the cult of Sigmar during this era. If someone were to do a Talabecland themed army then a warrior priest of Sigmar/Ulric doesn't make much sense.

Empire will likely get a plastic captain/general on demigryph, similar to the Bretonnian lord on pegasus. Empire already had a pretty solid range of models, aside from the knights which haven't aged quite as well as the Bretonnian ones. And a plastic warrior priest kit wouldn't hurt as i'm not too keen on them bringing back the metal ones. They're probably one of the easiest of the armies to put back into production, with Wood Elves needing the most work.

Talabheim does have very strong links with Ulric as well - Ar Ulric even relocated there between 1360 and 1547. However I really hope they do all the major priests - Warrior Priests of Taal, Myrmidia, Verena and Priests of Morr and Shallya could all be really good models and have interesting rules

This would be nice. The best reason to play Altdorf is that you can get away with fielding priests of any and all gods, although not fielding at least one Sigmarite would be odd. All of the cults seem to have thier home range, as it were, but it makes sense that you would find all of them in the capital. But if you say your Sylvanian greatswords are led by an Ulrican priest, you're getting side eye!

 march10k wrote:


Almost as embarrassing to the world's foremost ricebowl-guarder of IP as the blatantly stolen Ark of the Covenant. Frankly, I was stunned that they gave us rules for the casket.

I'm pretty sure the book of Exodus is public domain by this point

ccs wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Some parts of this project really feel like there's a level of thought and care that seems to be missing with quite a few of their releases these days.

Releasing rules for some units without specific models and saying do whatever you like, encouraging conversions and making your own additions, the unreleased lord and also that he includes a helper miniature just because, not just re-releasing a few old models but going through the process of recasting them, even updating them and going beyond just what they were before to add new parts or extra model sculpts or just making them easier to build. Even just that they're using metal again.

So you're complaining about the good stuff we're getting?

You should really make sure you've actually read a post properly before replying to it.

The Casket is one of the iconic elements of the TK army. Not having it would be like leaving Rhinos out of the Space Marine list.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Thought and care? Impossible, I was told that this was a low effort phoned-in release by the sad sack brigade.

It's quite telling that you never offered any counter arguments to the things I said, choosing instead childish insults like this. That suggests to me you don't have any.

 nathan2004 wrote:
I squealed at this...it's almost like they want this game to be successful despite all the naysayers lol.

No one ever said GW didn't want TOW to be a success. Their definition of success leans far more toward 'made us more money than we invested' than 'a fun and balanced game with proper reverance paid to its source material', though - hence the book sales strategy and minimal new product.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Trying to dismiss it with "Only 8 kits at launch!" despite just that alone already seeming to be a bigger launch than the specialist games released over the past few years, even their latest ones of the new Horus Heresy edition, and Legions Imperialis.

This is just flat out untrue, and deliberately misleading. The majority of the actual new models for TOW are characters; single models which are not at all comparable to HH's Mk6 Marines or LI's Astartes Infantry (just to pick two examples) despite each of those being 'one kit'. TOW remains a much lesser release than either of those two games despite having had the same, if not longer, development time.


As far as the article goes, I don't buy any of what they're saying about having to resculpt bits of old models without proof - certainly the photos they've provided don't illustrate it, so we have only their word to go on, and it sounds like an excuse. With marketing material I take nothing at face value - and I am not in the habit of believing much of anything a WHC article says given how often they end up wrong, or sneakily edited later to cover a mistake they don't want to admit to.
Show me a model with noticeably improved details or assembly, and I'll admit to being wrong. Until then, I remain entirely cynical and mistrustful.

 MalusCalibur wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
I squealed at this...it's almost like they want this game to be successful despite all the naysayers lol.

No one ever said GW didn't want TOW to be a success. Their definition of success leans far more toward 'made us more money than we invested' than 'a fun and balanced game with proper reverance paid to its source material', though - hence the book sales strategy and minimal new product.

GDubs is a publicly traded company, the balance sheet and bottom line will always be more important than anything else...I don't understand why people don't get this. All other publicly traded companies follow this approach, why would GW be different. Paying reverance and releasing a fun and balanced game are all secondary. Back prior to their IPO, your argument made more sense when it was more about the hobby and like you said making the game fun. Their material, mission, and focus have all changed.

That said, I've seen a lot of the rules for TOW and I like them. That's subjective clearly but they seem pretty clean and straightforward without losing complexity and required planning. Basically what they purported 10th 40k would be but fell way short of IMO.

Also, this release is being handled very differently than previous releases and it's refreshing to see them not try and copy right Every.Single.Thing related to this game. Just put a gaming framework out there and let the community come up with ideas how to spruce it up.

I got an email from my FLGS today that said the GW distribution center in Memphis shut down due to inclement weather and I believe it was closed yesterday as well.

If you are stateside, there is a good chance your pre-orders will be delayed.

If you had it shipped to a store and ordered on the 6th, they likely went out last week.

My Bretonnians shipped on the 8th, sadly won't be getting them due to store closure from smoke damage!

 MalusCalibur wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Thought and care? Impossible, I was told that this was a low effort phoned-in release by the sad sack brigade.

It's quite telling that you never offered any counter arguments to the things I said, choosing instead childish insults like this. That suggests to me you don't have any.

I wrote some pretty lengthy posts in rebuttal, which you never responded to.

Lets not, lets instead keep this thread for news and rumours related to TOW.

 Graphite wrote:

 march10k wrote:


Almost as embarrassing to the world's foremost ricebowl-guarder of IP as the blatantly stolen Ark of the Covenant. Frankly, I was stunned that they gave us rules for the casket.

I'm pretty sure the book of Exodus is public domain by this point

And I'm pretty sure the Ark doesn't work the way Steven Spielberg imagined. It's his movie they ripped off, not the Bible. I'm gobsmacked to have to explain that!

 march10k wrote:

 Graphite wrote:

 march10k wrote:


Almost as embarrassing to the world's foremost ricebowl-guarder of IP as the blatantly stolen Ark of the Covenant. Frankly, I was stunned that they gave us rules for the casket.

I'm pretty sure the book of Exodus is public domain by this point

And I'm pretty sure the Ark doesn't work the way Steven Spielberg imagined. It's his movie they ripped off, not the Bible. I'm gobsmacked to have to explain that!

The explanation for how it works is different from the way it works in the movie. That"s sufficient to avoid any issues - assuming Lucasfilm and Spielberg even care (which they likely don't).

Grail Seeker wrote:
I got an email from my FLGS today that said the GW distribution center in Memphis shut down due to inclement weather and I believe it was closed yesterday as well.

If you are stateside, there is a good chance your pre-orders will be delayed.

Also late here too.

Then again late is normal. Legions was 3 weeks late. Marine&tyranid codex late. Admech&necron were late i think. Generally everything been late since leviathan :/

My local FLGS hasn’t received any of their order yet so they are hoping it will arrive tomorrow. Going to be a lot of unhappy customers if not - made worse by the fact that some U.K. retailers had stock as early as a week ago and at least two shipped stock last Friday.

Apparently my shop has the stuff.

 nathan2004 wrote:

GDubs is a publicly traded company, the balance sheet and bottom line will always be more important than anything else...I don't understand why people don't get this. All other publicly traded companies follow this approach, why would GW be different. Paying reverance and releasing a fun and balanced game are all secondary.

This is 100%, unarguably true.

Here's another truth. Just because GDubs puts out a product, I do not have to buy it if it doesn't satisfy my wants or needs. If TOW sucks (granted, in my opinion, YMMV), I won't buy it. If no TOW community develops in my area, I won't buy it. If I think it's just too darn expensive for what I'm getting, I won't get it.

If it's a least decent, I can find a community to play the game with, and I can justify the price to myself, then I will get it

Won't know which category it falls under until it's out, a community starts building around here, and I can see the rules in action.

Eumerin wrote:

 march10k wrote:

 Graphite wrote:

 march10k wrote:


Almost as embarrassing to the world's foremost ricebowl-guarder of IP as the blatantly stolen Ark of the Covenant. Frankly, I was stunned that they gave us rules for the casket.

I'm pretty sure the book of Exodus is public domain by this point

And I'm pretty sure the Ark doesn't work the way Steven Spielberg imagined. It's his movie they ripped off, not the Bible. I'm gobsmacked to have to explain that!

The explanation for how it works is different from the way it works in the movie. That"s sufficient to avoid any issues - assuming Lucasfilm and Spielberg even care (which they likely don't).

Of course they don't care, it's not about that. It's about the hypocrisy of ripping off everyone else's ideas and then turning around and C&Ding everyone in sight. Thankfully, I did get my deathwing dice before they C&Ded Chessex

I think I've seen everything now regarding TOW community.

I've just read someone claiming, on the fb group, that GW are quickly nerfing the legacy factions before release, supposedly because people are still hyped about them. Of course, no source given, just "it's reliable, trust me".

The sooner we can get out of this legacy faction uncertainty limbo the better.

Pretty sure Legacy pdfs are coming tomorrow.

Some influencers have let it slip they're already recording battle reports with them to go live day 1.

 Vulcan wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:

GDubs is a publicly traded company, the balance sheet and bottom line will always be more important than anything else...I don't understand why people don't get this. All other publicly traded companies follow this approach, why would GW be different. Paying reverance and releasing a fun and balanced game are all secondary.

This is 100%, unarguably true.

Here's another truth. Just because GDubs puts out a product, I do not have to buy it if it doesn't satisfy my wants or needs. If TOW sucks (granted, in my opinion, YMMV), I won't buy it. If no TOW community develops in my area, I won't buy it. If I think it's just too darn expensive for what I'm getting, I won't get it.

If it's a least decent, I can find a community to play the game with, and I can justify the price to myself, then I will get it

Won't know which category it falls under until it's out, a community starts building around here, and I can see the rules in action.

I agree totally with what Vulcan says. Probably the most sane thing I've seen on here in a while.
However, I also realise that for a large section of dakka contributors, Kirby's old quote that the hobby is buying our product, fits perfectly.
I'll see how it goes in my area.

For those new to resin/metal https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/19/old-world-almanack-how-to-get-the-best-out-of-your-resin-and-metal-models/

I think they nerfed the legacy lists by formally partnering/taking control of the ITC circuit. There was a big "no TO in their right mind movement will ban legacy lists, GW can say whatever they want, were going to play them in tournaments anyway" movement, at least on facebook, but if GW controls the tournament circuit? Well, good luck. You can host your info tournaments but if all the incentive and prize support is behind the official circuit then that's where the TOs and players will flock to.

That feels a bit far-fetched.

 Vulcan wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:

GDubs is a publicly traded company, the balance sheet and bottom line will always be more important than anything else...I don't understand why people don't get this. All other publicly traded companies follow this approach, why would GW be different. Paying reverance and releasing a fun and balanced game are all secondary.

This is 100%, unarguably true.

Here's another truth. Just because GDubs puts out a product, I do not have to buy it if it doesn't satisfy my wants or needs. If TOW sucks (granted, in my opinion, YMMV), I won't buy it. If no TOW community develops in my area, I won't buy it. If I think it's just too darn expensive for what I'm getting, I won't get it.

If it's a least decent, I can find a community to play the game with, and I can justify the price to myself, then I will get it

Won't know which category it falls under until it's out, a community starts building around here, and I can see the rules in action.

I don't disagree with your statement either, it's acknowledging the realities and decisions made by both producers and consumers...Time will tell how this will all play out, personally like I said I hope it's successful so we can all play one rank and flank game in my community. But like you said, each community will determine if they full adopt or keep all doors open with rank and file.

Anyone have suggestions on proxies using GW models for a Chaos Dragon?

chaos0xomega wrote:I think they nerfed the legacy lists by formally partnering/taking control of the ITC circuit. There was a big "no TO in their right mind movement will ban legacy lists, GW can say whatever they want, were going to play them in tournaments anyway" movement, at least on facebook, but if GW controls the tournament circuit? Well, good luck. You can host your info tournaments but if all the incentive and prize support is behind the official circuit then that's where the TOs and players will flock to.

They way I read it they apparently directly nerfed the PDFs, hitting vampires the hardest.
I can't tell whether this is just wild speculation or someone specifically trying to spread unnecessary worry.

Gert wrote:That feels a bit far-fetched.

Aren73 wrote:
They way I read it they apparently directly nerfed the PDFs, hitting vampires the hardest.

That seems like an outrageously wild lie, after all anyone who actually knew this would be under NDA.

Anyway it's easy to confirm or deny. If content creators who have Legacy reviews and battle reports ready to go don't publish them same day as the pdfs go up (presumably tomorrow), we'll know it's true. If they publish, it's fake.