]So the new Grey Knights have hit tables everywhere, and the interwebz is telling you your awesome (and very expensive) Daemon army needs to be shelved... WRONG! this is a guide to help Daemon players fight the good fight!
1) Intro
Just like any other army, Daemons stand a fair chance at beating down any army they face. Now, while it is more powerful to run a mixed Daemons list covering the weaknesses of 1 god with the strengths of another, many players prefer to keep it fluffy and stick with 1-2 gods. Whatever your way of playing with them, they stand a good chance to wrecking opponents! I'm here to help you by evaluating each Daemon unit, giving tips and tricks, as well as general Tactica at using the daemon army! Lets get started!
=2) Deployment=
Daemons all start in reserve at the start of the game, with half coming in T1, the rest come in as normal. Now for most games people feel (with over a 60% chance) that putting your best units into 1 wave is a better idea than spreading them out.
WRONG!
In my experiences, when you roll your non prefered wave and you have your awesome-sauce guys all in your primary wave, your off to a bad start. You generally don't have the tools you need to take care of your biggest threats, and then by the time your good stuff comes in, you'll be feeding them piecemeal. That being said, my general rule (I play mixed daemons with heavy Tzeentch) is this: if I have 2 of the same unit, put 1 in preferred and 1 in my secondary. Of course this comes down to your opponent as well, but for most matches, splitting them up is better. Most people might argue that if you don't place, say, both units of fiends in the same wave, they'll focus down the ones that do come down and when your others come down they'll die just as easily.
My answers simple: so? If your opponents shooting at some fiends that are generally hiding in cover, its leaving the rest of your army untouched. The biggest reason for having 2 balanced waves is you don't want to be completely inept on the drop if your bad wave comes in. Most people generally deploy all their anti-mech in their primary, with the assault elements coming in secondary; I like to know I can deal with mech either way; if they wanna shoot my assault elements, fine. At least I'll be better able to down the razorbacks and chimeras!
Now, when you come onto the board there are some things you want to consider beforehand:
- Prioritize your threats according to the weaknesses in your army. If your playing mono-khorne for example, you have less ranged anti-mech. So aim to blast the faster moving elements on the board that are mechanized, and move from there.
- Do NOT get too aggressive! I cannot stress this enough. Your ranged units (i.e. horrors) have an 18-24" range, why deep strike any closer than 12 or so inches? Now things like crushers, the closer the better, but in general, stay a decent bit away from your foe.
- NEVER take first turn! You want your opponent to get 1 less turn of shooting, as well as be able to move for objectives after him.
I would actually consider taking the first turn against armies such as Eldar and GK's, as they often use psychic powers that require the first turn to bolster themselves like fortune, and the dreaded warp quake. Other than that, go second.
- Deploy behind objects. This will generally give you a better save, as most things have a 5+.
If you keep those 3 things in mind you'll have an easier time with your foes!
3) Icons
I wanted to put a small spot in my guide for Icons. Icons seem like a must-have to most players (especially newer ones) when starting Daemons. Don't be fooled; they aren't.
In general, if you do want icons, 2 is the most to aim for. I usually run 1, but the more I play, the more I notice its really not needed. Proper deployment will normally ensure you hit the board well enough off that icons are unneeded. As well, Icons tend to "cluster" your units together, making multi-charges and templates far more effective.
So as said, if you WANT icons, limit it to 1 or 2. Put it on a generally hard to kill unit (Plaguebearers, Bloodcrushers, you get the idea) where the icon will be most safe. And always deploy the icon in a forward location, or an area where you want a majority of your units at.
4) Building an army: what to know
Daemons are a tricky lot to play. Each unit in the army was built for a specific task, weather it be to soak up damage, shoot, beat things up, or beat things up even harder, your units are balanced so that they have glaring weaknesses over another god. In general they go like this:
- Tzeentch - Units are focused on shooting and have the best saves in the army; but are generally fragile and pitiful in close combat
- Khorne - Units are beast in close combat, have generally average stats, but cannot shoot (and if they do have poor BS) and are reasonably slow. They also sport some of the better saves for the army.
- Nurgle - Units are tough as hell, sporting feel no pain, high toughness, and usually llots of wounds. They also have poisoned weapons which are pretty nice. They cannot shoot and are really, really slow
- Slaneesh - Units are quick as lightning, usually I5 or I6. They sport more attacks than the other gods, and most units have fleet. They generally only have 1 shooting attack, which is used to get into CC quicker, have low toughness, and low saves.
With these things in mind, when building a daemons army figure out if you want to do 1, 2, or all the gods. After that, think about your meta; is it infantry heavy? Mech heavy? Are you a competative or fun player? These things will help you in choosing what to take for your army!
5) Unit breakdown
So heres what most people love to read: Unit breakdowns!
I've graded all the units in the book from an E to an A. In general these are based on my experiences with the unit as well as all the battlereps I've read for them. Now, like any unit, a unit that really doesn't work for 1 person might rock for another; so experiment! I've broken the units down to god specfic, then generalized units.
Nurgle Units
Overview: Nurgle units are normally considered "objective holders". Plaguebearers are the most common unit people use from them
Epidemius
Strengths: He gives your army the Tally of Pestilence and can hide in a unit
Weaknesses: Does diddly squat in CC and can't shoot. Also, hes a $35 model...
Overall: Hes good support charecter if your running LOTS of Nurgle units; otherwise, look elseware
Grade: C-
Herald of Nurgle
Strengths: None
Weaknesses: Everything... he sucks in CC, hes slow and purposeful, and only has 2 wounds... seriously?
Overall: Useless in every way, if your running Mono-Nurgle take GD's and Epidemius
Grade: E
Kugath, the Plaguefather
Strengths: Comes with breath of chaos and the 2 best nurgle gifts base, has 6(!) wounds, lots of attacks, and he shoots AP 2 poisoned large blasts? Awesome!
Weaknesses: Slow and Purposeful, 300 points, his Nurgling infestations OK, but in KP games it just gives away KP's
Overall: A must have for a Mono-Nurgle army. However, due to being sooooo slow, not very reliable
Grade: B
Great Unclean One
Strengths: Same stats as Kugath minus 1 wound and 1 attack, REALLY cheap HQ, can get all nurgles gifts
Weaknesses: Again, Slow and Purposeful. Otherwise hes a solid HQ choice
Overall: Great for a cheap MC HQ, but yet again, Slow and Purposeful makes him a lot less useful
Grade: B
Beasts of Nurgle
Strengths: None
Weaknesses: Slow and Purposeful, Randomized attacks, low save, and only 2 wounds for 35 points each.... ew
Overall: Terrible unit. Even Mono-Nurgle lists should look elseware!
Grade: E
Plaguebearers
Strengths: Really tough, can take objectives, have Str 4 and have poisoned weapons!
Weaknesses: Slow and Purposeful makes them a lot less likely to see close combat
Overall: Best objective holding troop in the dex', just don't look to them killing too much most games!
Grade: B+
Nurglings
Strengths: T3, 3 wound swarms, that DON'T get insta gibbed? Awesome! Combine with epidemus and these buggers will rack up a tally!
Weaknesses: They really suck in any other army but Epidemus builds...
Overall: Good troop for Epidemus builds; other builds really have no use
Grade: B-
Khorne Units
Overview: Khorne units are the heavy hitters of the Daemon army, tearing through armor like nothing. They generally have super high strength as well!
Skarbrand, The exiled one
Strengths: Str 8 base, 1 more attack than a thirster, allows all your stuff (and opponents) to reroll hits even against vehicles!
Weaknesses: He doesn't have wings; fleet really doesn't make up for it as people can block him with waves of things like Gaunts if needed
Overall: If he had wings he'd be a must have in my book. As is, though, the ability of opponents to chump-block Skarbrand really hampers his effectiveness. Breath of Chaos is a good addition tho
Grade: C+
Bloodthirster
Strengths: Flies, can have Str 8 base, a 2+ invun against things like GK (Take that!), WS10!
Weaknesses: He can get shot to bits... and his shooting attack sucks
Overall: Love the Thirster; hes a beast in CC, can tear any vehicle a new one, 3+/4+ with 4 wounds is nice. Death Strikes kind of a useless upgrade tho...
Grade: A-
Skulltaker
Strengths: Can insta-kill whatever he hits on a 4+, can take a Juggernaut, has higher attacks/WS than a normal herald, and can hide in units... CC beast!
Weaknesses: Can't shoot, terrible invun save (like most)
Overall: Great HQ if you want to take a couple Heralds. Hes also a must in any Crusher heavy army; he'll kill Mephiston single-handedly!
Grade: B+
Herald of Khorne
Strengths: Can take all the gifts of Khorne, a Chariot, and a Juggernaught. also the only crusher that can effectively kill Walkers in CC
Weaknesses: Death strikes a terrible upgrade... hes only BS 3!
Overall: Good as a second HQ choice with Skulltaker. Most armys won't find any use for him, tho
Grade: B
Bloodcrushers of Khorne
Strengths: High toughness, can be wound allocated, all power weapons, 2 wounds each... roar!
Weaknesses: Expensive! They're also pretty slow, moving as infantry.
Overall: Great, hardy unit. These go well in any army that can fit them!
Grade: A
Bloodletters of Khorne
Strengths: Str 5/I5 on the charge, lots of attacks, WS5
Weaknesses: Slow, low saves, no grenades, not good at objective holding, just great at killing
Overall: Overall a great troop. Good at doing its job, but not much else
Grade: B-
Flesh Hounds of Khorne (Karanak)
Strengths: Quick (beasts), lots of attacks at Str 5, all have 2+ invuns against psykers!
Weaknesses: T4 with a 5+ invun...
Overall: I think Fleshhounds are great anti-mech units. 10 (on the charge) get 30 str 5 attacks on rear armor... dunno about you, but thats hot! Plus the fact they have fleet and charge 12" means they're always hitting something!
Grade: B
Slaanesh Units
Overview: Quick! All Slaanesh units are unusually fast and pack a punch!
Keeper of Secrets
Strengths: He has fleet, I10, and WS8... The rest of his stats are the same as other GD's. Oh, he has 6 attacks. And can take a few shooty abilities
Weaknesses: He really doesn't offer anything that the Bloodthirster doesn't do much (much much) better... And I10? Other than Banshees who would you need that against @_@
Overall: Bloodthirsters better, but, if running Mono-Slaanesh, this guy works
Grade: B-
The Masque
Strengths: Can shoot 3 pavanes a turn (hot!) on up to 3 units
Weaknesses: Can't join units, 2 wounds, T3, crappy save, not much better in CC than a normal Daemonette
Overall: So you ask... why a B+? As a utility charecter, Masque is AMAZING! But you need to build your army around her to make her useful. Most other armies, though, stay clear!
Grade: B+
Herald of Slaanesh
Strengths: Has all the gifts of slaneesh...
Weaknesses: Low strength...
Overall: Overall, I think the Heralds of Slaanesh are meh. They just don't offer much, and by the time you upgrade the hell out of them, they're still just a 5 wound marine with a bad save
Grade: C
Fiends of Slaanesh
Strengths: Quick as hell, str 5, 6 attacks on the charge, weee!
Weaknesses: T4, 5+ save
Overall: These guys are incredible! They pop rhinos easily, tear through hordes, and nom-nom marines... if only they had grenades!
Grade: A
Daemonettes
Strengths: Cheap, lots of rending attacks at high initiative, and fleet
Weaknesses: Low toughness, craptastic save
Overall: I've tried liking Daemonettes... But they just don't cut it most games. Sure, they eat infantry. But these guys do squat vs most armor, and shooting armies eat these quickly. You've gotta take large blobs to make them effective... meh
Grade: C-
Seekers of Slaanesh
This is the one unit in the dex (aside from Furies) I have not used... so I'm not going to judge them
<<Edit Ers126 - My 2 cents>>
Strengths: Fast (cavalry)! Lots of rending attacks. I6. Off+Def Grenades. Fairly cheap @17pts.
Weaknesses: Only S3, T3. Only 5++
Overall: Need a big unit since you likely will lose some to shooting, at least 10. Full squad of 20 gets 100 attacks on the charge. :D
Grade: A-
Tzeentch Units
Overview: Tzeentch units are the shooty ones of the bunch; and they do it well!
Fateweaver, Oracle of Tzeentch
Strengths: Everyone in 6" rerolls all saves... WEEEE! And has every gift base
Weaknesses: T5, 3 wounds, and has to roll a Ld test everytime he fails one
Overall: If you build an army around him, Fateweaver is AMAAAAZZZINNNGGG! He really has no negatives other than if hes poorly used, he'll go down like a sack of potatoes
Grade: AA
Lord of Change
Strengths: He can take all the gifts of tzeentch
Weaknesses: By the time you upgrade him to make him good, you could have just taken fateweaver
Overall: His cost is what kills him; if he wasn't so expensive, he might have a use
Grade: D
The Bluescribes
Strengths: They can cast any shooty gift from the book, at random. And can shoot up to 2. And they can hide in a unit
Weaknesses: herald of tzeentch on a disk...
Overall: They're good if your playing a gimmicky pavane army; but most armies I don't really see them filling any holes. Heralds of Tzeentch are just better!
Grade: C+
Herald of Tzeentch
Strengths: Can take all the gifts for Tzeentch, best anti-tank in the book
Weaknesses: Low toughness
Overall: Put em on a chariot with Bolt of Tzeentch, and these 5 wound 4+ invun guys do awesomely.
Grade: A
Flamers of Tzeentch
Strengths: Flame on! Move like jump infantry
Weaknesses: Low toughness, very expensive
Overall: These are the codex' (arguably) best shooting anti-infantry unit. These will burninate most units quickly. However, they vie for a spot with fiends and crushers... which are both more survivable and more effective in most games
Grade: B-
Pink horrors (and the Changling)
Strengths: Shooty (very shooty), good saves for daemons
Weaknesses: Low toughness, very expensive, BS 3
Overall: My second favorite troop in the dex. They're cheap plastics now, which are awesome. Plus a unit of 5 throws out 15 str 4 shots! Thats pretty awesome
Grade: B
Screamers of Tzeentch
Strengths: They all have melta bombs and move 12"
Weaknesses: They need to attack tanks to pop them....
Overall: I used to swear by these in my old Daemon army; but that was a year ago. Now that DE/BA are all over, and most of my foes know what Screamers can do, they die quickly or if they do get to a tank, need 6's to friggin hit... They really don't do much. Oh, and not to mention $30 for 3 is a bit outrageous
Grade: C-
General Units
Furies of Chaos
Strengths: None
Weaknesses: Do i need to go into it...?
Overall: These suck. period. stay away
Grade: E
Soul Grinder
Strengths: Cheap for an AV 13 walker that ignores stun and shaken, lots of attacks, fleet, harvester guns awesome
<SnaleKing's 0.02: Mawcannon! You forgot about Phelgm, a fantastic weapon for murdering HWT's and CC specialists: do you want to charge those purifiers, or shoot them?>
Weaknesses: BS3... Oh, and the kits super expensive
<SK: also, as they are the only vehicle you can bring, the opponent brings most of their AT to bear against it: giving your opponent easy choices is bad!>
Overall: These guys are awesome in mono-god armies. They also are awesome if your not running a Fateweaver army. Overall, awesome!
Grade: A-
Daemon Princes
Of Khorne
Strengths: Nothing the other builds don't have
Weaknesses: Can't buy any of the good shooting powers, REALLY expensive to kit out right
Overall: Worst of the DP builds, stay away!
Grade: D
Of Nurgle
Strengths: Can get noxious touch, meaning hes wounding (with a PW!) against Tyranid MC's and IC's on a 2+... with rerolls if they're T5 or less! Can get grenades as well, highest toughness of the DP's
Weaknesses: Expensive to kit out right, low invun save
Overall: My second favorite DP build; these go great in Fateweaver lists or any list that needs a powerful CC guy
Grade: B+
Of Slaanesh
Strengths: Higher I than other DP's, can get grenades and pavane
Weaknesses: Still expensive, doesn't offer anything super terrific
Overall: Overall almost as bad as the Khorne prince; only saving grace is he can actually buy shooty gifts
Grade: C
Of Tzeentch
Strengths: Can get bolt of change, which hits on a 2+ with them! 4+ invun save!
Weaknesses: None that the others don't already have
Overall: best DP build IMO. The ability to throw BS5 bolts is amazing in a mech heavy environment! And hes not too bad in CC
Grade: B+
6) Sample 1500 pt lists
Here I will post 5 lists: 1 for each god + 1 mixed list. These are mean't to be competative while staying fluffy; keep that in mind!
Nurgle-Only Daemons
HQ
Ku' Gath - 300 pts
Epidemus - 110 pts
Troops
-----
10x Plaguebearers - Instrument of Chaos - 155
10x Plaguebearers - Instrument of Chaos - 155
10x Plaguebearers - Instrument of Chaos - 155
7x Nurglings - 91 pts
Heavy
---
Soul Grinder - Phlegm - 160 pts
Soul Grinder - Phlegm - 160 pts
DP - MoN, Touch, Hide, Cloud, Wings - 215 pts
Total: 1501
Khorne-Only Daemons
HQ
Skulltaker - Juggernaught - 175 pts
Herald of Khorne - juggernaught, blessing, might -125 pts
Elite
-
4x Bloodcrushers - icon, fury, instrument - 200 pts
4x Bloodcrushers - icon, fury, instrument - 200 pts
Troops
-----
7x Bloodletters - 112 pts
7x Bloodletters - 112 pts
7x Bloodletters - 112 pts
7x Bloodletters - 112 pts
Heavy
----
Soul grinder - Phlegm - 160 pts
Soul grinder - Phlegm - 160 pts
Total: 1468 - Leaves some points for upgrades
Slaanesh-Only Daemons
HQ
---
Keeper of Secrets - Musk, Might - 235 pts
Elites
---
6x Fiends of Slaanesh - Might - 190 pts
6x Fiends of Slaanesh - Might - 190 pts
Troops
-----
14x Daemonettes - 196 pts
13x Daemonettes - 182 pts
13x Daemonettes - 182 pts
Heavy
---
Soul Grinder - Phlegm - 160 pts
Soul Grinder - Phlegm - 160 pts
Total: 1495 pts
Tzeentch-Only Daemons
HQ
Herald of Tzeentch - Chariot, Bolt, Master of Sorc - 100 pts
Herald of Tzeentch - Chariot, Bolt, Master of Sorc - 100 pts
Herald of Tzeentch - Chariot, Bolt, Master of Sorc - 100 pts
Elites
--
5x Flamers - 175 pts
Troops
-----
5x Horrors - Bolt - 95 pts
5x Horrors - Bolt - 95 pts
5x Horrors - Bolt - 95 pts
5x Horrors - Bolt - 95 pts
5x Horrors - Bolt - 95 pts
5x Horrors - Bolt, Changling - 100 pts
Heavy
---
Daemon Prince - MoT, Bolt, Wings, Might - 220 pts
Daemon Prince - MoT, Bolt, Wings, Might - 220 pts
Total: 1490 pts
Mixed Daemons
HQ
---
Fateweaver - 333 pts
Herald of Tzeentch - Chariot, Bolt, Master of Sorc - 100 pts
Elite
---
6x Fiends - 180 pts
6x Fiends - 180 pts
Troops
---
5x Horrors - Bolt - 95 pts
5x Horrors - Bolt - 95 pts
5x Horrors - Bolt, Changling - 100 pts
Heavy
---
DP - MoT, Bolt, Wings - 200 pts
DP - MoT, Bolt, Wings - 200 pts
Total: 1483 points
Thanks for viewing my guide, hopefully it helps someone out there in interwebland... may chaos reign!
