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H.B.M.C. wrote:

Isn't it clear we've reached critical mass with Space Marine releases? <snip>

I'll say. Bring on the plastic aspect warriors! And plastic sisters!

Lormax wrote:


I'm sure you get my point, I don't feel sorry. Adjust with the changes to the game.

I'd be fine with that if all those changes didn't end up costing a lot of money. Or ripping the soul out of a certain army. I say keep yelling because if we yell enough GW might listen. I know it's a long shot, but it's possible. Heck, GW is actually doing timely FAQ's now and asking people to send them more questions.

40kenthusiast wrote:"So what exactly are the benefits for turning traitor again? I can't remember."

Lash, Obliterators, ridiculously good Troop choices that are also fearless.

Lash is good, but cheesy in the extreme. I personally don't like using it because it's so powerful.

Obliterators are good, but even they get wiped out by focused fire. Everyone at my store know how good they are and always shoot at them first. I had quite a few games were my Obliterators died before doing anything meaningful because I failed my cover save, invul save, etc. Then again, I only have 5 so maybe I need to take more.

As for the cult troops: Plague marines are great, but expensive.

Khornze Bezerkers are ok. They're not great unless they get into CC, which doesn't always happen. Because who the heck wants to fight them?

Noise Marines I have no experience with until I get more sonic weapons.

And Thousand Sons, are good, but got nerfed by the new cover rules. Now that most things have a 4+ save, that ap3 isn't so good anymore. And again, they're expensive, and absolutely crap in CC.

I'm thinking my Black Legion my turn into Black Spikey Loyalists at this point. Or I'll just focus on collecting cool models, because these new rules are sick.

Thats the problem though. GW HAD a way to continue to give players what they wanted all the while continuing to keep the SM's relevent. It WAS called, CHAPTERS.

We get the distinct pleasure of Slannish giving it to us, then coming behind it with it's nerf claw, cutting off the SM and throwing them on the floorhammer.
Now that the game goes large scale, we LOSE chapters and get the red, green, and blue ones.

Takes it a step backwards in such a way as to leave people scratching thier head asking what the last ten years were for.

I for one don't mind new, interesting and revamping it if it didn't work in the first place, but to rehash the same time and time again and then pull cheese out of your fourth point of contact and act like its exciting really drives it home how generic the poor dumb space marines are really becoming.


I do like the range, there is a distinct fell, a little more detail, and a good range of them, but damn, is it asking too much for a supposedlyu new and improved version of a game to come up with established standards coming out of the gate, instead of playing one upsmanship and nerfing itself out of existance?

Space marines are pretty much a standard, now how about lets look past the color and give up some goods as to WHY ELSE I should pick them, except on basis of color.

CHAPTERS, the other white meat.

Hellfury wrote:In short, it works exactly like a teleport homer, which is what it is.

There is one other possibility in that it could work as a Teleport Homer that lets you DS off of it the turn the Scouts come in from a board edge.

The current Teleport Homer rules don't allow that. However, that is only spelled out in the wargear section as their is nothing in the 5th Ed rules that prohibits DS off of a Teleport Homer (or an Icon for that matter). 5th Ed allows you to make reserve rolls and then move on reserves in any order you want. If they lifted the wargear restriction then you could move the Scouts on and Teleport your Termies off of them.

However, if they did that and didn't FAQ Ravenwing and their Teleport Homers, I would be a bit

If you haven't won nearly every game you've played with the current Chaos Space Marines Codex, you have to be terrible at this game.

Besides, Chaos Legions will be coming before you know it; mark my words.

brassangel wrote:If you haven't won nearly every game you've played with the current Chaos Space Marines Codex, you have to be terrible at this game.

Who said anything about losing all the time? I'm just saying that the CSM codex ain't that great compared to all the amazing new stuff SM's get.

Besides, Chaos Legions will be coming before you know it; mark my words.

Yeah, another opportunity to totally screw the pooch. Then again, they might be good. Who knows? Until we actually see the new stuff, which could be a long time from now, no one can say. In the meantime the current codex leaves me feeling ... bored.

brassangel wrote:If you haven't won nearly every game you've played with the current Chaos Space Marines Codex, you have to be terrible at this game.

Besides, Chaos Legions will be coming before you know it; mark my words.

As long as you take some pretty specific stuff. Yeah thats true, the chaos codex can be tough. However, the old codex made a strong or at the very least competitive list using any of the options and Uber list if you just stuck with the broken gak. Truthfully it was hard to make a poor list under the old codex. Unless you were trying to play T-sons. Then well, it was business as usual in the screw over T-sons camp.

Noisy_Marine wrote:

brassangel wrote:If you haven't won nearly every game you've played with the current Chaos Space Marines Codex, you have to be terrible at this game.

Who said anything about losing all the time? I'm just saying that the CSM codex ain't that great compared to all the amazing new stuff SM's get.

Besides, Chaos Legions will be coming before you know it; mark my words.

Yeah, another opportunity to totally screw the pooch. Then again, they might be good. Who knows? Until we actually see the new stuff, which could be a long time from now, no one can say. In the meantime the current codex leaves me feeling ... bored.

*Starts to type a reply than stares at your avatar*

*Starts to type again than stares at your avatar*

*Starts to....aww screw it, what's the story on your avatar?

Noisy_Marine wrote:I'm thinking my Black Legion my turn into Black Spikey Loyalists at this point.

I'm sure you've got more self-respect than going down that road, Noisy! I agree with your takes on the "Obviously Good" things people point out in the CSM book, including 1k Sons ultimately still being crap and Lash being so powerful I won't run it. The one thing that continually gets stuck in my craw though is chaos dread vs loyalist dreads - WS 5 BS 5 reroll damage venerables, AV13 siegers ... If chaos dreads are stuck with no mutated hull at least let them have the old Crazed table where blood rage meant 2x attaks and fire frenzy doubled at the enemy first! FFS!

brassangel wrote:If you haven't won nearly every game you've played with the current Chaos Space Marines Codex, you have to be terrible at this game.

Like Noisy said, the point isn't us wanting an AUTOWIN army, it's wanting any kind of depth and mutability in an army we love. And it's freaking called CHAOS, of all the codexes to steamroll flat

AgeOfEgos wrote:*Starts to....aww screw it, what's the story on your avatar?

German Games Day Chicks, Natürlich

- Salvage

Valhallan42nd wrote:I like BoLS, because it allows me to keep up with rumors w/o going through 10 pages of neck-beard nerd rage (see above).

QFT!
____

oni wrote:
I agree. Tho I am less than thrilled about the lame banner ads. Especially the one that displays gak about Scientology.

"banner ads"?

I use Firefox with Adblock Plus, so I am not familiar with this phrase.

Liber Chaos wrote:But the new Daemonettes aren't even hot any more, unless you like the current gender-confused models.

For the purported target audience of newly-pubescent boys, isn't that about right?

Also, wouldn't that be appropriate for the other stereotypical GW gamer - basement loner who's into she-male pr0n.

Lormax wrote:I'm sure that Squat players, LatD players, Dogs of War players really feel sorry for that...

I'm sure you get my point, I don't feel sorry. Adjust with the changes to the game.

*raises hand as a Dogs of War player*

I don't feel sorry at all.

Unless I get an Army Book that's stupidly good.

Then I'll feel vindicated.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Also, wouldn't that be appropriate for the other stereotypical GW gamer - basement loner who's into she-male pr0n.

What the hell kind'a people are you hangin' out with Jonny-boy if you consider that a stereotype?

BYE

Boss_Salvage wrote:Like Noisy said, the point isn't us wanting an AUTOWIN army, it's wanting any kind of depth and mutability in an army we love. And it's freaking called CHAOS, of all the codexes to steamroll flat

Exactly. I have won enough games with the new codex but it is simply bland in comparison to the old one. I don't do tournaments and I don't power game (never run 2X Lash Princes and don't plan to). I selected Chaos as my first army because of the character and variety of play styles you could create, not to win every game. Even some of my regular opponents have now asked me to start using my old codex because it is more interesting for them to play against than the current one.

Now, I don't begrudge any army their shiny new toys. It keeps things interesting. However, it is a little troubling to see my codex rendered generic and the new models like Possessed and Spawn (which are pretty cool looking) given iffy rules, and compare that to the new SM toys and rules. I can also understand how some of the other SM chapter players (e.g., DA, BT) feel and sympathize with them -- even if they are loyalist scum

Codex Legions? I'll believe it when I see it and don't expect that for a long time since other armies are in dire need of a new codex. I am also not convinced this was part of GW's original plan. I suspect it was more of an after-the-fact, CYA move when faced with some of the backlash from removing the legion rules in the first place. Anyway, rant over. Carry on.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:I like BoLS, because it allows me to keep up with rumors w/o going through 10 pages of neck-beard nerd rage (see above).

QFT!
____

Seconded.

They could have saved a ton of money on printing the new SM codex by just having it be 1 page with 1 special rule: Marines Win.

Honestly... I know the SM are GW's "pet" army, but up till now they haven't truely shown favoritsm. This codex is just a big "screw you" to every non-marine army out there. They really should change the tag line of the game to "40k- the game of Marines. We only wrote other armies to give our marines something different to slaughter every week."

I'm 95% done painting my Demon army, might as well put them on the shelf.. the fact that NO demon can assault after Deep Striking but a Damn Marine can? (It MIGHT be bearable if Vanguard vets are 0-1 but they'd never put a LIMITATION on their favorite army, would they?) Sorry, but that was the nail in the coffin.

Beast of Nurgle wrote:They could have saved a ton of money on printing the new SM codex by just having it be 1 page with 1 special rule: Marines Win.

Honestly... I know the SM are GW's "pet" army, but up till now they haven't truely shown favoritsm. This codex is just a big "screw you" to every non-marine army out there. They really should change the tag line of the game to "40k- the game of Marines. We only wrote other armies to give our marines something different to slaughter every week."

I'm 95% done painting my Demon army, might as well put them on the shelf.. the fact that NO demon can assault after Deep Striking but a Damn Marine can? (It MIGHT be bearable if Vanguard vets are 0-1 but they'd never put a LIMITATION on their favorite army, would they?) Sorry, but that was the nail in the coffin.

Welcome to the real 40k, Beast. And they have been shown favoritism in the past. Iron Warriors and Rhino-rushing Blood Angels were both space marines.

Beast of Nurgle wrote:They could have saved a ton of money on printing the new SM codex by just having it be 1 page with 1 special rule: Marines Win.

Honestly... I know the SM are GW's "pet" army, but up till now they haven't truely shown favoritsm. This codex is just a big "screw you" to every non-marine army out there. They really should change the tag line of the game to "40k- the game of Marines. We only wrote other armies to give our marines something different to slaughter every week."

I'm 95% done painting my Demon army, might as well put them on the shelf.. the fact that NO demon can assault after Deep Striking but a Damn Marine can? (It MIGHT be bearable if Vanguard vets are 0-1 but they'd never put a LIMITATION on their favorite army, would they?) Sorry, but that was the nail in the coffin.

Valhallan42nd wrote:I was just as upset about the proposed changes as anyone else.

And then I sat and thought about it. Most of changes are to things that would not affact my list building. I don't use high-end high-costed killie squads, I don't think I'd ever deep strike a unit close enough to probably scatter into them and die, esspecailly a high costed unit, etc. Most of these added units will just appear in high pointed apoc style games, and most of the better armies will focus on making balanced tight lists with proper support.

From another thread, but it bears repeating here. My advice would be patience when we don't even know how much all of this stuff costs. Epidimus with a solid mono-nurgle list or Bloodcrushers with Kiaros Fateweaver are just as bad as anything proposed here, if not worse.

Exactly!

How many Marine armies (4th edition) were actually 'top tier'?

smiling Assassin wrote:Ahh.

If this ever gets to 6th Ed., the LEAST GW could do (for the poor, weedy, undernourished, un-loved SM Players with obviously a MASSIVE disadvantage to EVERY other army) would be to inpose some kind of Power for Commanders...

Exterminatus - 60 Pts.

- On a 4+ (OOH RISKY) destroy every single fricking enemy unit.

Dude.
Don't be an ass. That's just ridiculous.

To be balanced, it would have to be about 100 points and then only on a 5+... and they have to roll PER UNIT, of course.

Eric

Noisy_Marine wrote:So what exactly are the benefits for turning traitor again? I can't remember.

Horned helmets, spiky bits, cool looking tentacles and pustules.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:

Noisy_Marine wrote:So what exactly are the benefits for turning traitor again? I can't remember.

Horned helmets, spiky bits, cool looking tentacles and pustules.

And really, it's the pustules that make all the girls go weak in the knees...

MagickalMemories wrote:

Noisy_Marine wrote:So what exactly are the benefits for turning traitor again? I can't remember.

Horned helmets, spiky bits, cool looking tentacles and pustules.

Eric

That reminds me of when I was drunk in Tokyo...

The more I look and hear the more depressed I am about the new changes. GW are getting more and more blatant, it was unsubtle enough when they made the Reaver titan 500pts underpriced (at a minimum) to try and sell models. This is far worse.

Teh new Spase Marienz Codex is designed to give Games Workshop a 3+ save against Hasbro, however profit warning reports are Ap2.

MagickalMemories wrote:

Noisy_Marine wrote:So what exactly are the benefits for turning traitor again? I can't remember.

Horned helmets, spiky bits, cool looking tentacles and pustules.

Eric

The perk used to be hooking up with daemonettes, but they even found a way to screw that up.

Beast of Nurgle wrote:I'm 95% done painting my Demon army, might as well put them on the shelf.. the fact that NO demon can assault after Deep Striking but a Damn Marine can?

That's because daemons are daemonic, not heroic, and thus can't use Heroic Intervention. Everybody knows you need to be a hero to assault after Deep Striking - duh! Silly daemon, rules exceptions are for marines!

Valhallan42nd wrote:My advice would be patience when we don't even know how much all of this stuff costs.

I don't care if they cost 300 pts each. What possible reason could there be to allow Vanguard Vets to assault after Deep Strike? I really want to get ahold of the new marine dex just to see what kind of bullsh!t fluff gymnastics they pull to justify this little gem.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:That's because daemons are daemonic, not heroic, and thus can't use Heroic Intervention. Everybody knows you need to be a hero to assault after Deep Striking - duh! Silly daemon, rules exceptions are for marines!

Does this make Lesser Daemons the unsung heroes of 40k, or does their use of "Daemonic Summoning" as opposed to Deep Strike per se strip them of the honorific?

I am also looking forward to reading the new fluff . . .

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I don't care if they cost 300 pts each. What possible reason could there be to allow Vanguard Vets to assault after Deep Strike? I really want to get ahold of the new marine dex just to see what kind of bullsh!t fluff gymnastics they pull to justify this little gem.

<sputters> What? Being heroic and intervening isn't enough? Jeez! Just what kind of explanation do you need?

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I don't care if they cost 300 pts each. What possible reason could there be to allow Vanguard Vets to assault after Deep Strike? I really want to get ahold of the new marine dex just to see what kind of bullsh!t fluff gymnastics they pull to justify this little gem.

Actually they should be able to assault and deep strike, as they are elite of the elite troops. However that should be with an expensive upgrade, which is also available to CSM Raptors, which is mirrored by an exarch ability to leap from a transport into assault. Daemons should not be able to normally deepstrike and assault, but a special sorceror or daemon psyker power could 'hex' a target so that daemons can deeptrike into combat with it. These rules would make sense. SM vets and Raptors making 'breakneck' combat drops, Howling Banshees/Striking Scorpions being acrobatic and leaping from Wave serpents. The idea of cursing an enemy so that daemons materialise right next to him to carry him off to the warp also fits. Heck, I should be writing the rules.

Everyone else should deep strike and assault the slow way.

Orlanth wrote:Actually they should be able to assault and deep strike, as they are elite of the elite troops. However that should be with an expensive upgrade, which is also available to CSM Raptors, which is mirrored by an exarch ability to leap from a transport into assault.

Well, it's not.

Orlanth wrote:
Actually they should be able to assault and deep strike, as they are elite of the elite troops. However that should be with an expensive upgrade, which is also available to CSM Raptors, which is mirrored by an exarch ability to leap from a transport into assault. Daemons should not be able to normally deepstrike and assault, but a special sorceror or daemon psyker power could 'hex' a target so that daemons can deeptrike into combat with it. These rules would make sense. SM vets and Raptors making 'breakneck' combat drops, Howling Banshees/Striking Scorpions being acrobatic and leaping from Wave serpents. The idea of cursing an enemy so that daemons materialise right next to him to carry him off to the warp also fits. Heck, I should be writing the rules.

Everyone else should deep strike and assault the slow way.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing more units have the ability. I think the Vets do pay for the ability though...it was said before they were around 30 pts/each. Pretty pricey for assault marine stat lines. Of course, they have more options than assault marines...but again that's even more points too. I don't think the vets will be that common (Perhaps Kantor armies?).