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Curious if this will be a NPC or they'll try to shoehorn her into the party. With the attendant risk of 'Navigator's dead, you're stuck here forever'
Could be a funny, and suitably grimdark issue. Or they'll just handwaive that away for game mechanic reasons.
Or, as I've seen a few tactical RPGs do, sometimes you have characters that can "die" in the combat, but they'll only just become gravely wounded. They'll become unplayable, but will still be alive for cutscenes and stuff, sometimes with changes to appearance to show they're permanently disabled or something. IIRC some of the Fire Emblem games did this.
They sort of did that with Kingmaker. Whoever (of the initial companions) you recruit last in chapter 1 is 'wounded' and can't (won't) help for the remainder of that chapter. Which is weird in a setting with high powered healing magic, but whatever.
Also, various companions take off and and are unavailable for various reasons, so game engine-wise, they could do something with a wounded status. System mechanics, I don't remember off hand how the 40krpgs handle healing (though I also suspect some level of handwaving so it isn't terribly unfun).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/09/09 15:31:54
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Well, the FFGrpgs basically made healing extremely difficult. Outside of spending fate points to heal, you had psychic powers, the extremely limited Medicae skill, and just bed rest. Medicae could only be used once per injury or to speed bed rest which could be as slow as 1 wound a week without medical attention. Especially for low to mid level characters, basically any fight would leave you critically wounded.
No health potions in the grimdarkness of the far future, no long rest for 8 hours to heal up. Unless you've got a biomancy psyker or a healer in the party you're basically out of action for a while.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Voss wrote: Navigator characters are always weird ones. On the one hand, they're fascinating, but on the other hand, there really is very little reason they should ever leave the ship. (Except on civilized worlds and negotiating with navigator houses or other important trade folks)
Curious if this will be a NPC or they'll try to shoehorn her into the party. With the attendant risk of 'Navigator's dead, you're stuck here forever'
Dead navigators pop up in various stories, a few of them end up being "we're a derlict vessel adrift in the void because we can't find our way home, lets become cannibals while we wait for rescue", but some of them instead end up as "This is Captain Janeway of the Rogue Trader Voyager. Our Navigator's dead, we will have to take the long slow painful way home using high risk short-distance warp jumps calculated by our nav-computer. We should reach our destination in approximately 750 years if everything goes smoothly, too bad things won't go smoothly". I also seem to recall reading somewhere that there are what are basically "rogue" navigators that are basically unsanctioned by the Navis Nobilite or who have left/abandoned/been exiled from their houses because they found the isolation of that lifestyle to be too constricting and they want more adventure in their lives, etc. Many of these end up employed by Rogue Traders and often end up as "battlefield psykers" through the course of their adventures as a result of their impulsiveness and unwillingness to abide by the rules.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
They sort of did that with Kingmaker. Whoever (of the initial companions) you recruit last in chapter 1 is 'wounded' and can't (won't) help for the remainder of that chapter. Which is weird in a setting with high powered healing magic, but whatever.
Yeah and then there's the chapter with the plague and they're using healing potions while performing exploratory surgeries which reminded me that I don't really like high magic settings all that much. Tends to lose the verisimilitude and grounded aspect pretty quickly.
Really love the artwork they've shown so far. The main picture shows a Space Wolf and Sister of Battle but doesn't mention them as party members; those are two of my favorite imperial factions so I certainly hope that's an option.
Also hoping there will be plenty of diplomatic options with the xenos so not everything is resolved with bloodshed.
Interesting. Backgrounds are probably the best way to go for character customization. Didn't expect Commissar or even Criminal, though.
Not sure how the heir of a Rogue Trader ends up as a Commissar. That's some seriously incompatible world views, operational methods and social roles. I guess it could function for a 'kill them all' RT, but the level of doctrine they're immersed in seems hard on the flexibility required for the new position.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/14 17:03:32
I don't think a Commissar-cum-Rogue Trader is that far-fetched. Theres been examples in Black Library and other sources of Commissars becoming planetary governors and other figures of nobility, etc. (though it might be better to say they "inherit" those roles rather than "become" them). In fact, I think most Imperial nobles and planetary governors in the fluff usually have some reference to prior military service in some capacity in their background. Commissar is just one of several paths those nobles might take in the path of military service.
Within the context of a Rogue Trader - I think its reasonable to think that a scion of a Rogue Trader dynasty might end up in the Schola Progenium if their parent(s) are lost or killed in the course of their adventures, etc. From their they may end up in the Commissariat and do time there before age/injury/other events sees them muster out of service and return to take the reigns of the dyansty, especially if the issue of succession is a bit complex (i.e. younger child of a Rogue Trader dynasty - the older one gets to run things, the younger one ships off to the Schola, has a career in the guard/commissariat, etc., then the older one bites it and the warrant of trade passes to the commissar which is basically a "get out of imperial service free" card that lets them move back home and run the family business).
The excellent Warhammer Horror novel The House of Night and Chain covers a similar situation (albeit involving the planetary governor rather than a Rogue Trader). No real spoilers follow as this is all character background that gets covered in the first couple chapters:
Spoiler:
Basically, the main character is the previous planetary governors distant relative (don't recall the exact relationship, might have been his third uncle thrice removed or something like that, or even a member of a cadet branch of the family that was related only by marriage, either way) - when the planetary governor bites it, he inherits the responsibility, but he's an officer in the guard and serving in a warzone at the time, so his wife basically acts as governor in his stead while he's away (until she dies). His kids end up wards of the state, as it were, because nobody is around to care for them after his wife passes. After some time, he gets mustered out of the guard and put out to pasture, at which point he resumes the role of governor of the planet (which up until then was basically functioning as a democracy being run by the legislative council or whatever). By that point, his daughter (older child) is an instructor at the Schola Progenium (so not quite a Commissar, but close), while his younger son is basically a stereotypical trust fund kid living off of daddy's name and money. Presumably, this means that his daughter, the Schola instructor, would be the next in line as planetary governor if the governor were to die.
So yeah, kinda just imagine a situation like that.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Thats an... odd... take. Life isn't a fantasy novel where everyone is locked into very narrowly defined archetypes for their entire lives, people can and often do change careers as they go through life (shall we count how many Presidents and other heads of state had prior careers in the military or went on to become CEOs at Fortune 500s, for example?). This complaint is silly.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
wtf?
No, _life_ isn't. But the idea that a 40k CRPG is more like real life than a fantasy novel is utterly bizarre.
But we're talking about character backgrounds for a computer game. Those _are_ explicitly narrowly defined archetypes defined around themes! That's the entire point of having main character customization centered around backgrounds!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/09/15 17:14:35
Yes... its a BACKground, I.E. the stuff that happened to you in your *past* that was formative to who you are in the *present*. Its not who you are *forever*, just like how when you're designing your DnD character, your background might be "Sailor" or "Soldier" or "Court Jester", but that doesn't stop you from being an adventurer in the present.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Rogue Traders aren't just one type of person. Sure, the popular image is they are a swashbuckling rogue who would very much chafe at the strict discipline of the Schola. But the vast majority of them are simply merchants, plying the stars with their private fleets of ships. Merchants who want stability and order, which would put them in the mindset that would be very compatible with being a Commissar.
The families of Rogue Traders will be large extended affairs with long traditions. There could easily be families who send all of their children off to the Schola Progenium because that is tradition, its what they do. The Schola isn't 100% just filled with orphans, there are plenty of people who are sent/choose to go. Not like the Imperium is going to turn down willing volunteers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/15 23:56:32
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Voss wrote: Interesting. Backgrounds are probably the best way to go for character customization. Didn't expect Commissar or even Criminal, though.
Not sure how the heir of a Rogue Trader ends up as a Commissar. That's some seriously incompatible world views, operational methods and social roles. I guess it could function for a 'kill them all' RT, but the level of doctrine they're immersed in seems hard on the flexibility required for the new position.
They were the 5th son, shunted off to the schola so they couldn't cause problems after they were getting a bit too "friendly" with the daughter of a rival Rogue Trader dynasty.
Who could have foreseen the Catastrophe of Ilyas VI, which resulted in the patriarch of the family and sons 1 through 4 losing their lives? So the warrant fell to son 5, currently serving as the commissariat attachment to an artillery regiment, safely positioned kilometres behind the front line. His disposition and approach to his duties was unlike that of many of his peers. This was partly because he personally didn't see the point in wasting men just to make an example when other less permanent methods worked, and also as a survival tactic to avoid the high-rate of "accidental" friendly fire incidents which afflicted many of his particular profession who took to their duties with over-zealous brutality.
Remember, PCs in any RPG are the exceptional, the unusual.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/10/23 11:55:45
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Who could have foreseen the Catastrophe of Ilyas VI, which resulted in the patriarch of the family and sons 1 through 4 losing their lives? So the warrant fell to son 5, currently serving as the commissariat attachment to an artillery regiment, safely positioned kilometres behind the front line. His disposition and approach to his duties was unlike that of many of his peers. This was partly because he personally didn't see the point in wasting men just to make an example when other less permanent methods worked, and also as a survival tactic to avoid the high-rate of "accidental" friendly fire incidents which afflicted many of his particular profession who took to their duties with over-zealous brutality.
Remember, PCs in any RPG are the exceptional, the unusual.
Sounds like he was friends with Caiaphas at school
Who could have foreseen the Catastrophe of Ilyas VI, which resulted in the patriarch of the family and sons 1 through 4 losing their lives? So the warrant fell to son 5, currently serving as the commissariat attachment to an artillery regiment, safely positioned kilometres behind the front line. His disposition and approach to his duties was unlike that of many of his peers. This was partly because he personally didn't see the point in wasting men just to make an example when other less permanent methods worked, and also as a survival tactic to avoid the high-rate of "accidental" friendly fire incidents which afflicted many of his particular profession who took to their duties with over-zealous brutality.
Remember, PCs in any RPG are the exceptional, the unusual.
Sounds like he was friends with Caiaphas at school
Yeah, might have nicked a fair chunk of that bit
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/23 19:22:07
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Looking forward to it and definitely going to buy this, but BG3 might've ruined all party based RPGs for me, I fear.
I did enjoy the Pathfinder games for the most part, though I lost touch with them because of other games that took my attention.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
In our new game, Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader, we've introduced a lot of unique and unusual mechanics that were not present in our previous projects. We decided to not stop there and took it a step further.
Since the very first day we started working on Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader, we've concluded that travelling across the Koronus Expanse with a friend would be a lot more fun, and now we're excited to finally announce it! Cooperative mode will be available on PC at launch and introduced to consoles at a later date!
We'll be back with the details soon enough, but for now - stay tuned!
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Noice
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Co-op play prioritizes flexibility; I can have friends join me on my campaign at any time, just by choosing the co-op mode, generating a code to share, and loading a save. What’s more, my companions can keep the save after our run, allowing them to advance on their own if they so choose. Rogue Trader is a massive game, and the co-op system seems to focus on allowing players to join up with friends at any point over maintaining a consistent role-playing campaign for each participant.
Reviews have started flowing in for this game, looking very mixed so far. With buggyness/tedious mechanics/encounter balancing being the worst of the issues. Hopefully it can still be patched into something worthwhile throughout next year.
Thargrim wrote: Reviews have started flowing in for this game, looking very mixed so far. With buggyness/tedious mechanics/encounter balancing being the worst of the issues. Hopefully it can still be patched into something worthwhile throughout next year.
From what I have heard of Owlcat's other games, that's pretty much to be expected.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Yeah. I'm definitely waiting on this one (if at all).
Bugs are supposedly not as bad as the wrath of the righteous launch, but the bigger problem seems to be that the combat is meh. (Build stacks of <random jargon> to burn later)
Tedious and repetitive and class abilities never got turned into coherent, digestible versions. You can learn it, but a lot of people won't want to, and it'll bring the buzz down a lot.
You'll be staring at options like adding +((50 + 10 x Ballistic Skill bonus) / number of enemies in the area of effect)% damage with an additional +(10 + 2 x Ballistic Skill bonus)% dodge reduction to your next ranged area-of-effect attack, and wondering who thought making it all so bitty was a good idea.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/12/07 04:04:08
Well, that article was fun to read. Big reminder why I felt detached by the end of Kingmaker and was glad to finally finish it. Which is a shame, because the worldbuilding in the game is great. But the actual gameplay is, to use the same phrase as the article, absolute tedium.
Thargrim wrote: Reviews have started flowing in for this game, looking very mixed so far. With buggyness/tedious mechanics/encounter balancing being the worst of the issues. Hopefully it can still be patched into something worthwhile throughout next year.
From what I have heard of Owlcat's other games, that's pretty much to be expected.
Pretty much. Pathfinder has its issues with abilities and magic and stuff spiraling out of control on higher levels, which isn't something I'd blame on Owlcat, but their encounter design and game flow is pretty terrible. I lost my saves from my previous, unfinished playthrough of Kingmaker and since I didn't feel like going through the same slog again, I played the game on stupid easy difficulty. Which, I found, left me the time and patience to really look into the design goals. It feels like these guys are incapable of designing their game for something that could be described as normal difficulty. As a GM playing the tabletop game in the past, it's amazing how jacked up and stacked against the player pretty much every encounter outside low level areas your party has successfully leveled out of are. It's like the goal is to have normal difficulty be a hardcore experience every single time with these guys, and throwing ARPG hordes at you at in slow and sluggish turn based combat.
For this reason alone I'm not in a hurry to buy Rogue Trader. There may be technical differences to the Pathfinder games, but it seems clear that the design ethos is the same. I don't need that kind of slow, frustrating game design in my life. I'm interested in the story and the game may be cheap and complete enough down the line, and I might feel masochistic enough to give it a try. Paying full price for that experience with all the glorious early game bugs thrown in for seasoning doesn't appeal, though.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
