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what communication?
an article full of words saying nothing is communication but a waste of time (as saying nothing could have be done without it as well)

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 kodos wrote:


either way, GW does not think Warhammer Fantasy and their fans are important enough

They have brought The Old World back, something that many thought would never happen, but we still have to moan about something, eh?

So just doing something with a part of the old world again means its perfect and all criticism should be avoided, then?

I dunno, I mean people could wait until it actually exists as a product before heaping criticism on it, or on the designers? Maybe it's just me, but being critical of a company because you've got it into your head that they don't care about a product that they haven't even released yet is...not something that I think is productive or reasonable?

Maybe I'm in the minority here, because I know that there are a fair few people around these parts who will mock you for dare suggesting that you want to wait and see before judging something.

Crazy, isn't it?

The final product may end up being different, but people are allowed to give their opinions on whats been revealed so far and how they think its going based on that.

Nothing about the release of TOW has so far followed any established GW pattern (if such a thing exists) so perhaps we shouldn't expect it to behave like other GW releases? The unique announcement years in advance gave the whole thing a weird start.

A release in November seems just as a likely as next summer or even later to me. And I'm pretty sure GW will never announce a game several years from release ever again.

kodos wrote:what communication?
an article full of words saying nothing is communication but a waste of time (as saying nothing could have be done without it as well)

You said that the communication/articles on ToW that GW have released is "worse than nothing". Unless all of the information that they have given us is false, this is absolute nonsense, moaning for the sake of moaning, which brings me to...

Mentlegen324 wrote:The final product may end up being different, but people are allowed to give their opinions on whats been revealed so far and how they think its going based on that.

Sure, but when that opinion consists of some variation of "GW don't care about the fans of Warhammer"...it just becomes negative noise from entitled moaners, IMHO

I mean, GW can't win. If they were to release ToW tomorrow the same moaners would be moaning about it feeling unfinished

Okay, for the three posters who are here simply to tell us how this isn't coming, or isn't coming when rumors say, or whatever: You've clocked in your opinion. Move on. It's getting really fething old...

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

kodos wrote:what communication?
an article full of words saying nothing is communication but a waste of time (as saying nothing could have be done without it as well)

You said that the communication/articles on ToW that GW have released is "worse than nothing". Unless all of the information that they have given us is false, this is absolute nonsense, moaning for the sake of moaning, which brings me to...

Mentlegen324 wrote:The final product may end up being different, but people are allowed to give their opinions on whats been revealed so far and how they think its going based on that.

Sure, but when that opinion consists of some variation of "GW don't care about the fans of Warhammer"...it just becomes negative noise from entitled moaners, IMHO

I mean, GW can't win. If they were to release ToW tomorrow the same moaners would be moaning about it feeling unfinished

To a lot of people, what they've shown about TOW so far suggests they aren't committing much to it. When it's taken years and we still haven't seen much, half the armies aren't really involved, it's unclear what if any progression there will be in terms of expanding the setting later on, and even if that does happen it'll be years at the least, no tie in stuff has been even hinted at like novels, and it's going to involve a lot of resin miniatures, it's understandable why some would think they don't really care about it. That's just a valid an opinion as thinking it's all going to be great and no one should say anything negative.

They are a business. Of course they "care" about the product that they are producing, if only because they want it to be a success financially.

I can't believe that the creatives involved in producing the game "don't care".

When I hear someone say that "GW don't care about the fans" or a variation of this it makes me cringe hard. It's like I'm listening to young teenagers.

Sorry to anybody who is an actual teenager.

This is all I'm going to say on the matter, I've said my piece.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
They are a business. Of course they "care" about the product that they are producing, if only because they want it to be a success financially.

I can't believe that the creatives involved in producing the game "don't care".

When I hear someone say that "GW don't care about the fans" or a variation of this it makes me cringe hard. It's like I'm listening to young teenagers.

Sorry to anybody who is an actual teenager.

This is all I'm going to say on the matter, I've said my piece.

Wanting to make money from isn't necessarily the same thing as actually caring about it. Plenty of companies release products that evidently haven't had care put into them because all that matters to them is the money regardless of how its done.

Yeah, to say they don't care isn't accurate, but to say that they do care about the fans is also inaccurate - they don't, they only care about the fans interest and willingness to continue consuming their products, not necessarily what is in the best interest of those fans.

Time to move on, again. This little circular conversation was not interesting the first time, by the fifth it is just really tiresome.

Though I am not much on watching Youtube influencers, someone on reddit said Valtak walked back his earlier statements and said not to expect the Old World until early 2024. Speculation is it is due to NuEpic being pushed back again.

Bit of a bummer if true, but not at all surprising to see GW refrain from two system launches so close together.

Two system launches AND a new 40K edition in 6 months is crazy even for GW.

Grail Seeker wrote:
Though I am not much on watching Youtube influencers, someone on reddit said Valtak walked back his earlier statements and said not to expect the Old World until early 2024. Speculation is it is due to NuEpic being pushed back again.

Bit of a bummer if true, but not at all surprising to see GW refrain from two system launches so close together.

No reason for GW to rush at this point, that iron ain't getting any cooler.

 Overread wrote:
Two system launches AND a new 40K edition in 6 months is crazy even for GW.

I am still very much in doubt that TOW happens this year, personally, unless they do a "soft launch" where a couple things come out in one wave, and then a larger wave comes next year or something.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Two system launches AND a new 40K edition in 6 months is crazy even for GW.

I am still very much in doubt that TOW happens this year, personally, unless they do a "soft launch" where a couple things come out in one wave, and then a larger wave comes next year or something.

Given current events, would give them a chance to rewrite several key mechanics, hopefully before they release a physical rulebook. That said I've got my 6th ed one stashed somewhere.

 Overread wrote:
Two system launches AND a new 40K edition in 6 months is crazy even for GW.

What other way are they going to break previous profit records and keep the shareholders happy?

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Two system launches AND a new 40K edition in 6 months is crazy even for GW.

I am still very much in doubt that TOW happens this year, personally, unless they do a "soft launch" where a couple things come out in one wave, and then a larger wave comes next year or something.

Beta rules with a finished rules and models to follow in 2024?

Logical but totally unlike GW. And it would like 3rd parties and 3D printers get a jump.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Two system launches AND a new 40K edition in 6 months is crazy even for GW.

I am still very much in doubt that TOW happens this year, personally, unless they do a "soft launch" where a couple things come out in one wave, and then a larger wave comes next year or something.

Beta rules with a finished rules and models to follow in 2024?

Logical but totally unlike GW. And it would like 3rd parties and 3D printers get a jump.

Yes, the mental hoops one must jump around to get a 2023 or even 2024 release to be credible is astounding.

GW is more likely to start a few made to orders and re release old stuff with a FOMO of one month per srmy, before any rules ever arrive and promptly invalidates much of what you just bought.

I feel that if GW just wanted a quick cash in, why not release an 'amended' 7th edition book or revised 7th, with a few online articles with narrative 500 and 1500 pts. It could be written in a day, and a few changes to the book just for the sake of being able to call it 7th revised (totally not a re-release) would probably keep jerks like me playing the game and getting warmed up for the eventual Tow release. Now its just vaporware if you ask me.

I've gotten further into 3rd ed 40k and Warhammer renneissance as well as retro 6th and Mordheim, because the living rules releases of GW is either too frantic (40k) or vaporware.

As for Valraks rumor mongering, I think the 2023 release was just weak sauce to begin with. No way they just postpone a release containing a large rule book and several big armies (brets, tk?). A few months im advance? Nah. No way.

 triplegrim wrote:

As for Valraks rumor mongering, I think the 2023 release was just weak sauce to begin with. No way they just postpone a release containing a large rule book and several big armies (brets, tk?). A few months im advance? Nah. No way.

Not saying whether his 2023 release rumour is correct or not but he undoubtedly has a source with correct information based on how many other rumours if his turn out correct.

Also not like they just postponed another whole gamesystem only a few weeks before launch right? Of course as far as we know that wasn't done voluntarily but would totally be possible to do for TOW with a few months of time instead.

When they first announced it and said that it was on the horizon I didn't assume it until 2025 at the latest.

It would be a shame if they released nothing this year for the 40th anniversary. I could see them releasing a rule book and a couple of character models this year to satisfy the anniversary and releasing way more stuff next year including a big launch box with a couple armies, dice, etc.

Prior to the delay of Legions Imperialis everything hinted at a release sooner rather than later:
The frequency of preview articles increased to monthly.
Product shots of miniatures as well as battle shots (likely for the rulebook and promotion material) were presented.
Some rule concepts were presented.
In the shareholder commentary TOW is listed as coming soon.

Also, the marketing for the next edition of AOS will likely start in May with a release in July 2024.
Unless GW doesn’t care if both TOW and AOS release close to each other, that leaves basically the next 6 month or fall 2024 or later as a release window for TOW.

Further, since the game is already announced, the lead up to release may be relatively short (e.g. a few weeks). Legions Imperial also had a quite short lead up to the original release in August. So there is a precendent.

In the end, we don‘t know how much the delay of Legions Imperialis messed up the release schedule and wether or not there are other factors that prevent a release of TOW within the next 6 month.
Although I am looking forward to TOW, I am not too bothered whether or not TOW releases in 2024 or beyond. I have enough stuff on my plate.
However, my bet would be sooner rather than later for the points mentioned above.

Christmas boxes, that is all.

Seelenhaendler wrote:
Also, the marketing for the next edition of AOS will likely start in May with a release in July 2024.

Likely earlier with an announcement at Adepticon in March.

But yes, one would think GW would be more concerned about an overlap between AoS and Old World players than Epic and Old World players. It doesn't seem likely that they'd prefer to have overlap with an incoming AoS edition just to give Epic a bit of time in the spotlight by itself.

Still, for argument's sake if Old World had been scheduled for November and GW applied the Epic delay one for one, it wouldn't take more than a delay of two months to turn a 2023 release into a 2024 release with plenty of time before AoS is officially on the radar. Since there's precious little chance than The Old World was coming before November, the difference between a 2023 and 2024 release could be effectively meaningless.

Eiríkr wrote:
Christmas boxes, that is all.

What is this? A rumor, a hope.... what?

Johanxp wrote:

Eiríkr wrote:
Christmas boxes, that is all.

What is this? A rumor, a hope.... what?

I think Valrak had hinted there would be a TK and Brets box in a video about Christmas boxes, he wasn't sure if they would be Christmas boxes, launch boxes or potentially both as a release near Christmas.

Dudeface wrote:

Johanxp wrote:

Eiríkr wrote:
Christmas boxes, that is all.

What is this? A rumor, a hope.... what?

I think Valrak had hinted there would be a TK and Brets box in a video about Christmas boxes, he wasn't sure if they would be Christmas boxes, launch boxes or potentially both as a release near Christmas.

I could be mistaken here but I don't remember those being about christmas boxes. Just that instead of a normal two faction starter each faction would get their own box for the launch

 Matrindur wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Johanxp wrote:

Eiríkr wrote:
Christmas boxes, that is all.

What is this? A rumor, a hope.... what?

I think Valrak had hinted there would be a TK and Brets box in a video about Christmas boxes, he wasn't sure if they would be Christmas boxes, launch boxes or potentially both as a release near Christmas.

I could be mistaken here but I don't remember those being about christmas boxes. Just that instead of a normal two faction starter each faction would get their own box for the launch

Yeah it was the timing that was uncertain, if released late Nov/Dec they might end up getting slapped with that sort of context.

 Geifer wrote:

But yes, one would think GW would be more concerned about an overlap between AoS and Old World players than Epic and Old World players. It doesn't seem likely that they'd prefer to have overlap with an incoming AoS edition just to give Epic a bit of time in the spotlight by itself.

pairing Epic with 40k would be similar to pairing AoS with ToW
So it appears they think a mainline and a sideline do not overlap but 2 sidelines do

And most rumours for a TOW release this year are based on the 40 year anniversary and the picture countdown

The rumor I saw was about christmas boxes, though it wasn't clear if the TOW boxes were part of the christmas box rumor or a separate release.