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Any one know if the land speeder model is all new, and if so, does the body fit together decently without a boatload of work filling and filing and filling some more?

Jake

Hellfury wrote:

derek wrote:Quick question that sort of goes along with the direction the thread has headed. Has there been any word on whether or not Lysander will be keeping his Teleport Assault rule in the new book? I've always been a big fan of large numbers of Terminators, even had an Invictus led army back in 3rd, and I'm curious to see if a new variation of the Lysander wing is going to be an option in larger games.

Doubtful. No word on that ability. It doesnt matter. Termie command squads are gone, so the max amount of termies you can now have is three squads.

That pretty much sucks, looks like it's back to "counts as" Deathwing if I want to do Termies. I don't understand the design shift really, retinues/command squads have been a part of the game at least since I started in early 3rd, and most every army had some form of it. I always hated the lone character running around, whether it was a chaplain with jump pack and no other jump troops, or barebones commander there to just meet the HQ requirement. Looks like it's something that is going to become a much more common sight.

CptJake wrote:Any one know if the land speeder model is all new, and if so, does the body fit together decently without a boatload of work filling and filing and filling some more?

The rumor I've heard on this is that GW is well aware of how crap it is to put the old Land Speeder model together and so has made improvements to this one to make it easier to assemble. Don't know how true it is, 'course, but just what I've heard.

Hey Guys!

I have read the new rules and I am very upset. I just think I wasted thousands of dollars on armies that have no chance of winning anymore. I can think of one army, the Tau/ I used to have a very effective TAU army that could 80% of the time have a real chance of winning. With these new units and new abilities, makes armies that have no ability to defend its self against the assault pointless. I can now drop pod in and land and assault into the fire lines on the turn of entrance. You all probably remember me as the one who fought so hard about the run assault after disembarking and telling me that it would break the rules and be so wrong if they could fleet out or even assault out of a vechicle. You all told me that would never happen they would never allow a unit to assault after disembarking. *look around and hears a beatle fart.* Wow.. have things have changed now. If no one can do it Marines can.. Thats the new view of this new book. Ravens Guard with there little commander now can infiltrate and fleet and bestow all his army with fleet So this is what will happen he iniltrates assaults on turn one and follows behind him is multiple assault squads assaulting on the first turn because of 24-inch assault. 12 move, 6 run, 6" Fleet. Here comes the death of the gun line armies. They made sure no armies could deploy and be in the other's deployment zone in the first turn. I choose to go first or now if I am lucky roll a 6 and take it away from the other person. I can then move, run, fleet and assault on turn one if get lucky. The armies like Tau have to have at least one turn of shooting before having to deal with assault marines or they will be slaughtered. We all know that the Tau can not figure out how to pick up a chain sword or power weapon to defend itself.

Next Point:

I have a question! Where in the cannon does it say that space marines are faster then the eldar? There is no unit in the whole eldar armies that can do a 24-inch assault! Why does it say that if I want a 3+ Save, I have to take Scorpions and lose fleet because I want my better save? But humans get it because they decide to strap about 200lbs of jetpack and run with it. I am sorry. But a marine got to 1000lb all decked out with jetpack. But he can run and assault with a huge jet packs on better then the nimble and graceful elf with only 5 to 4+ saves.

What this is going to do is make people play space marine armies and when you go down to your local game store to have in interesting games. It will marine on marine games... oooohh fun!...PAINT BALL, worse... Ravens Guard and Ravens Guard intermural leagues matches, or marine on demons games. Even better.

Have you read the RULES or the RULES RUMORS?

If the latter, you want want to take a deep breath and wait for the actual CODEX, with associated points costs for all of this stuff...

want some cheese with that whine astalado?

Fleet is no longer a movement boost, it lets you assault after running.

so its jump and run, 18 inches with a good roll of the die. as a gunline if you don't have more than 24 inches between you and your opponent your asking for trouble anyway.

usernamesareannoying wrote:

Fleet is no longer a movement boost, it lets you assault after running.

so its jump and run, 18 inches with a good roll of the die. as a gunline if you don't have more than 24 inches between you and your opponent your asking for trouble anyway.

I never said it was a movement boost. DUH read my writing.

For a gunline army, I'm NOT stupid enough to put my guys right on the line closest to my opponent as can be, you are right, that is asking for trouble. But in the new missions you have a 24 inch field in between the two deployment zones, so that people can not assault in the first turn. Now this unit can, IF you are stupid enough to deploy on your own deployment zone. Also, if Caven Shrike can infiltrate, plus give fleet, on the new flanking rule we have to deploy within 24 inches of the left and right board edge. So that gives us a 18X24 inch box to deploy in to feel safe.

Anyone wanna call in some artillery?

I'm NOT trying to sit here and just whine, just making points on why this is NOT right. Eventually everyone is going to be playing space marines, because no one will be able to beat them, unless your demons. But, what fun is it to go to a tournament and everyone is playing the same army?

Astalado wrote:12 move, 6 run, 6" Fleet.

i guess i misread that...

this same thread starts every new edition every new codex. people play what they want regardless of power creep and the latest greatest army.

Astalado wrote:Hey Guys!

I have read the new rules and I am very upset. I just think I wasted thousands of dollars on armies that have no chance of winning anymore. I can think of one army, the Tau/ I used to have a very effective TAU army that could 80% of the time have a real chance of winning. With these new units and new abilities, makes armies that have no ability to defend its self against the assault pointless. I can now drop pod in and land and assault into the fire lines on the turn of entrance. You all probably remember me as the one who fought so hard about the run assault after disembarking and telling me that it would break the rules and be so wrong if they could fleet out or even assault out of a vechicle. You all told me that would never happen they would never allow a unit to assault after disembarking. *look around and hears a beatle fart.* Wow.. have things have changed now. If no one can do it Marines can.. Thats the new view of this new book. Ravens Guard with there little commander now can infiltrate and fleet and bestow all his army with fleet So this is what will happen he iniltrates assaults on turn one and follows behind him is multiple assault squads assaulting on the first turn because of 24-inch assault. 12 move, 6 run, 6" Fleet. Here comes the death of the gun line armies. They made sure no armies could deploy and be in the other's deployment zone in the first turn. I choose to go first or now if I am lucky roll a 6 and take it away from the other person. I can then move, run, fleet and assault on turn one if get lucky. The armies like Tau have to have at least one turn of shooting before having to deal with assault marines or they will be slaughtered. We all know that the Tau can not figure out how to pick up a chain sword or power weapon to defend itself.

That's right. Tau will be spending all of 5th doing this;



Now, if I can only get my Tau buddy to setup exactly 24' away from, not react to anything I do, roll nothing but 6's on my fleet, not put any terrain that on the board, talk my friend into not shooting my HTH units after they wipe one Firewarrior unit (Or maybe he will allow me to consolidate into new units like 4th?)....then my games will match the cartoon!

Alpharius wrote:Have you read the RULES or the RULES RUMORS?

If the latter, you want want to take a deep breath and wait for the actual CODEX, with associated points costs for all of this stuff...

Do any of you honestly believe that it will go down like this? I see the argument " To sell the models!" all the time. Why would they make the points super high on any of these models? So they could sell 100$ worth of stuff and be done with that customer for awhile? I highly doubt anything like that is going to occur. I expect the points costs to be close to, if not the same as, the current ones.

You do realize `Nids have had units that can assault 24" for a long while now, right?

Typeline wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Have you read the RULES or the RULES RUMORS?

If the latter, you want want to take a deep breath and wait for the actual CODEX, with associated points costs for all of this stuff...

Do any of you honestly believe that it will go down like this? I see the argument " To sell the models!" all the time. Why would they make the points super high on any of these models? So they could sell 100$ worth of stuff and be done with that customer for awhile? I highly doubt anything like that is going to occur. I expect the points costs to be close to, if not the same as, the current ones.

Yeah, I do believe it, kind of.

The "Special Characters" that let you do a lot of the funky stuff are bound to be rather pricey.

Take two, and watch the rest of your selections dwindle.

Again, does anyone really think that the new Marine Codex is going to push them to the top tier?

usernamesareannoying wrote:

Astalado wrote:12 move, 6 run, 6" Fleet.

i guess i misread that...

this same thread starts every new edition every new codex. people play what they want regardless of power creep and the latest greatest army.

Nope, don't think you misread anything. I am sure it was a mistake of sorts though. I wish Run and Fleet worked like that together, at least for Eldar races.

We all really should just wait until the codex is officially released along with the FAQ to go with it before we start complaining.

so can you have shrike and the drop pod vets that can assault after dropping?

Alpharius wrote:
Again, does anyone really think that the new Marine Codex is going to push them to the top tier?

Absolutely. At least initially. There will be some new super combo that will come out and it will just take a while to learn how to deal with it. Drop pod armies were stupid tough when the last marine codex came out. Now where are they? But for a while, I expect people to be very thankful that they were able to pull a draw when using a Xeno codex.

Astalado wrote:There is no unit in the whole eldar armies that can do a 24-inch assault!

Wyches with 12 inch assault (combat drugs) and swooping hawks can both do it. Of course, doing so with hawks isn't likely to accomplish much.

Thing is, with infiltrate, fleet and and jump pack Shrike could manage this in the old Codex but it really expensive.

Just wait for the points costs before panicking about marines being this all conquering list. Marines have not had a history of being the top codex, and I don't see that being likely to change.

Astalado wrote:I have read the new rules and I am very upset.

We all know that the Tau can not figure out how to pick up a chain sword or power weapon to defend itself.

There is no unit in the whole eldar armies that can do a 24-inch assault! .

Maybe you should start a Marine army?

That is why Tau have Kroot as *Troops*.

Except for Swooping Hawks.

Does GW have an overstock on Chaplain Cassius models?
Suddenly the Chaplain no one ever used because of his cost in comparison to a vanilla Chaplain, which is cheaper, but lacking the Tyr.Vet upgrade. Is the super awesome toughness 6 marine?!!

Did I miss something? Something big?
Are we going to see a whole slew of "Chaplain Cassius" count as Chaplains? I don't know about you guys but Chaplain "Crassius" of the 6th Company, sure wins it for my Dark Angels.

AgeOfEgos wrote:

Hellfury wrote:

derek wrote:Quick question that sort of goes along with the direction the thread has headed. Has there been any word on whether or not Lysander will be keeping his Teleport Assault rule in the new book? I've always been a big fan of large numbers of Terminators, even had an Invictus led army back in 3rd, and I'm curious to see if a new variation of the Lysander wing is going to be an option in larger games.

Doubtful. No word on that ability. It doesnt matter. Termie command squads are gone, so the max amount of termies you can now have is three squads.

Yeah...I assumed Lysander would give the option to trade one term unit--> troop. He's still pretty good though....if he throws a Term unit w/ SS in terrain, the entire unit will have 2++ saves!

I thought lysander fortified a piece of terrain to add +1 to cover saves, not a +1 to invuls.

RedSarge wrote:Suddenly the Chaplain no one ever used because of his cost in comparison to a vanilla Chaplain, which is cheaper, but lacking the Tyr.Vet upgrade. Is the super awesome toughness 6 marine?!!

Did I miss something? Something big?

Old models that no one bought last edition usually always get a boost, so, yes, if you don't already know this then you have missed something.

BYE

Am i the only one who finds it hilarious, that GW claims, that now LARGER squads are more attractive for players, because you can split them into multiple SMALL ones?

Stingray_tm wrote:Am i the only one who finds it hilarious, that GW claims, that now LARGER squads are more attractive for players, because you can split them into multiple SMALL ones?

I don't so much mind this change. I usually ran near full squads in one off games, and the ability to split my heavy weapon off into a unit that won't be moving, while having my assault weapon in a Rhino moving forward is kind of a welcome change to me, even if the unit ends up costing another 30ish points(I was running 8 man squads before, just going with the cost of two marines currently as I haven't seen anything decisive saying that they will be going up in cost yet).

Hellfury wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:

Hellfury wrote:

derek wrote:Quick question that sort of goes along with the direction the thread has headed. Has there been any word on whether or not Lysander will be keeping his Teleport Assault rule in the new book? I've always been a big fan of large numbers of Terminators, even had an Invictus led army back in 3rd, and I'm curious to see if a new variation of the Lysander wing is going to be an option in larger games.

Doubtful. No word on that ability. It doesnt matter. Termie command squads are gone, so the max amount of termies you can now have is three squads.

Yeah...I assumed Lysander would give the option to trade one term unit--> troop. He's still pretty good though....if he throws a Term unit w/ SS in terrain, the entire unit will have 2++ saves!

I thought lysander fortified a piece of terrain to add +1 to cover saves, not a +1 to invuls.

Yeah, I think I suffered a CVA before typing that. I meant that scouts w/ sniper rifles will have a 2++ save in his terrain.

/Marine Pathfinders?

ProtoClone wrote:

usernamesareannoying wrote:

Astalado wrote:12 move, 6 run, 6" Fleet.

i guess i misread that...
this same thread starts every new edition every new codex. people play what they want regardless of power creep and the latest greatest army.

Nope, don't think you misread anything. I am sure it was a mistake of sorts though. I wish Run and Fleet worked like that together, at least for Eldar races.
We all really should just wait until the codex is officially released along with the FAQ to go with it before we start complaining.

Astalado did put in a fleet move, despite his protestations now - but, to his credit, change "Fleet" to "charge" and the underlying premise is correct. One change is that Shrike used to give his abilities to one unit;now, doesn't he give fleet to his whole army? That seems to dramatically ramp up SM's power; infiltrating units have a charge range of 24" potentially, which is brutal, and the Vets with their DS + run move + charge will have a 12" effective range. What does that do to a Tau or IG army? Not good things, I think. Kroot are good, but not that good.

Antonin wrote:

ProtoClone wrote:

usernamesareannoying wrote:

Astalado wrote:12 move, 6 run, 6" Fleet.

i guess i misread that...
this same thread starts every new edition every new codex. people play what they want regardless of power creep and the latest greatest army.

Nope, don't think you misread anything. I am sure it was a mistake of sorts though. I wish Run and Fleet worked like that together, at least for Eldar races.
We all really should just wait until the codex is officially released along with the FAQ to go with it before we start complaining.

Astalado did put in a fleet move, despite his protestations now - but, to his credit, change "Fleet" to "charge" and the underlying premise is correct. One change is that Shrike used to give his abilities to one unit;now, doesn't he give fleet to his whole army? That seems to dramatically ramp up SM's power; infiltrating units have a charge range of 24" potentially, which is brutal, and the Vets with their DS + run move + charge will have a 12" effective range. What does that do to a Tau or IG army? Not good things, I think. Kroot are good, but not that good.

I don't know, in all our 5th games it seems elite HTH units aren't worth their points. Two reasons why;

Combat is resolved in one player turn (the player that assaulted)
You can't consolidate into fresh units

As long as your opponent spaces his units so you can't assault two in the same turn, you will likely end up assaulting one unit...sweep it then be open to shooting next phase. I think 5th will see the emergence of horde armies and multi-shot low AP weaponry.

RedSarge wrote:Are we going to see a whole slew of "Chaplain Cassius" count as Chaplains? I don't know about you guys but Chaplain "Crassius" of the 6th Company, sure wins it for my Dark Angels.

And yeah, I think we will see a whole slew of Chaplain Cassius counts as Chaplains, along with all the other counts as characters like Vulkan and MC.

Astalado wrote:Hey Guys!

(snip)

One assault squad will no longer kill a gunline. If you're facing one infiltrating fleeting jumping squad, throw a sacrifice squad up there. They can't consolidate into another squad. So, gun them down in your turn.

Or Plasma blast spam their asses away before they even get there....

With the new cheaper plasma cannons it should be a lot easier, and with the new scatter rules allow for some hilarity there as well! (You did not just scatter that onto your allies Logan Grimnar! Oh you Emo Marine Bastard your dead!)

I've actually started a marine army that has 4 pc's in a dev squad, just for giggles. Here's hoping it works out for me.