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The Pathfinder games were pretty fun, not flawless, but I certainly never felt like I wasted my money on them, looking forward to hearing more about this one.
Looks promising. What matters is the execution of course.
I haven’t played the Pathfinder CRPGs yet, though I’ve always wanted a classic CRPG set in the Warhammer world. I’d prefer the Warhammer Fantasy setting to 40K, though I’ll be willing to give this game a chance, assuming the reviews are favourable.
2022/06/01 23:25:50
Subject: Rogue Trader meets Pathfinder, new teaser for a 40k cRPG
El Torro wrote: Looks promising. What matters is the execution of course.
I haven’t played the Pathfinder CRPGs yet, though I’ve always wanted a classic CRPG set in the Warhammer world. I’d prefer the Warhammer Fantasy setting to 40K, though I’ll be willing to give this game a chance, assuming the reviews are favourable.
They're huge, sprawling and complex (and long). And buggy for a good long while after release (though they do slowly fix things). Their writing is... not great. Some of its the original adventure paths, some of it is a translation issue (the studio is Russian and whoever they have translating to English does not always Subject Verb well), and some is just... not great writing. (between the first and third factors, especially in Kingmaker, some of the late game villains don't really have a motivation beyond 'be here for the player to fight')
They're fun for RPG-combat and exploration though, if you like older-style isometric games. Just... don't rush out and buy it for the first several months. Or year. Kingmaker is fine now (it was really bad on release) and Wrath... still isn't really finished. Too many classes and rules, not every interaction works, and some class features are still just missing (I'm very salty that the Warpriest's war blessing is simply not in the game, despite being straightforward and being one of the signature abilities of the patron goddess sponsoring the story's campaign, and its the War domain in a story primarily about War. That it is just not implemented is honestly baffling).
This has promise, though (they get there eventually), and like Wrath and Kingmaker art, you're probably looking at several of the companion NPCs in the splash art.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/06/02 04:10:31
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2022/06/02 09:06:14
Subject: Re:Rogue Trader meets Pathfinder, new teaser for a 40k cRPG
I want to like this but I'm torn. On the one hand it's cool to see this kind of RPG for 40k. I'm definitely interested in that. On the other hand the RNG in Kingmaker was so infuriating that I couldn't bring myself to keep playing. If I want a game where it makes no difference if I roll a D20 or a D4 three quarters of the time, I'd just play tabletop Pathfinder.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
2022/06/02 17:39:04
Subject: Rogue Trader meets Pathfinder, new teaser for a 40k cRPG
Oh, no. Using the pathfinder rules wasn't ever an option.
Both for the licensing agreements involved (no) and the settings have wildly different assumptions (high scale heroic adventure where the heroes usually win vs... 40k grimdark) and that affects the systems massively. A d20 based 40k would assume that Guardsman Bob could actually tank a hit from a Hive Tyrant rather than exploding into meaty chunks in the same swing that takes out Fred and Steve as well.
[Though to be fair, we'll likely see some player plot toughening, just based on the fact that the game is throwing a daemon engine at the party in close quarters]
Plus last week (week before?) Paizo firmly denied rumors that Owlcat's next game would use Starfinder rules (which is frankly a relief, as Starfinder has some real inanities to it- 'you must be level 6 to use this missile launcher' and reloading is a incoherent mess of tracking how many hands you have and how many actions you have to spend changing your grip on a weapon, before you can spend an action to reload it and more actions to re-grip it. And remember which of those actions are 'free' but only usable once.).
I figured the 'meets pathfinder' was just a nod to the fact that those are the two games Owlcat has done as a studio.
---
Hopefully the cleaner & smaller system will help keep the release bugs down. Though they'll be less familiar with it, so... wins and losses in that respect.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/06/02 18:04:44
Just so you're aware, Only War already lets you be a hell of a tank. My Guardsman survived an Autocannon round to the face in my first run, and the Stormtrooper I was playing in the other could've survived a crit from a Multi-Melta. Meanwhile, Orc boys couldn't really damage him through his Carapace and Tougness combined. So there's still extremes possible.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/02 18:22:28
Sure? Most game systems have ways to go to extremes. (I assume 'Only War' is the most recent 40krpg?)
But the default assumption of D&D/Pathfinder/etc is that you will be fighting giants and dragons and demon lords and they will be pounding on you for several rounds of combat and you'll simply walk it off afterwards. Because you're heroes. (and there's healing and rez magic, and you'll probably need both in an Owlcat game, because they've got a skewed view of how the numbers in the d20 system's game balance works)
Most 40kRPGs have tended towards more lethal, and the assumption that normal characters will die, badly. Because lives don't matter. (and in terms of system balance, adding +5 to stats AND +5 directly to defenses matters less in d100 system than it does in a d20 system, so Owlcat's weird approach to difficulty shouldn't matter so much)
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/06/02 19:16:48
H.B.M.C. wrote: Technically Dark Heresy 2.0 was the last set of core rules they made.
And this is based on the actual Rogue Trader by FFG. That has me excited.
Less excited about having a Marine party member though (and a Woof, no less... ughk...).
Going by past precedent, if an NPC companion isn't a plot device (there are a couple of those in Kingmaker and Wrath, like 1 or 2 in each game out of 10 or 11 companions), they're perfectly rejectable or even murderable. To say nothing of having a companion impatiently, accidentally charging ahead and dying. So sad.
Of the potential NPCs in the art, I'd guess the Navigator is most likely to be indispensable, and you won't be able to get rid of or reject that character (because they're rare and you're boned if you don't have one).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/06/03 00:46:02
If the Marine was a Deathwatch Marine, then I could live with that. Hell, at the absolute worst, given that it's set on the Koronus Expanse, a Storm Warden would be ok as they are the closest Chapter.
If the marine is a Space Wolf, then there's a good chance he's the navigator's bodyguard. That's the most obvious lore reason for a lone SW to be hanging out with a rogue trader's crew.
A little bit of righteous anger now and then is good, actually. Don't trust a person who never gets angry.
Eihnlazer wrote: yeah theres no real reason to use a D20 system for a 40krpg anyway.
And even less reason to use a D6-based dice pool... (/anti-WANG bias).
*cough*
Eihnlazer wrote: FFG already wrote out a very good system for 40k with their Rogue trader stuff so its obvious using the D100 system is the way to go.
Which is why I'm glad they're adapting it. It won't be 1:1, obviously, which is fine - nor should it be, really - but I'm glad that that's their starting point. Their base.
Owlcat games are always very ambitious, very atmospheric but also very buggy. We should probably expect a game that’s true to a 4-5ed 40k setting (when the rpgs where published). It will likely get 40k very well and have a grand scope. We should also expect a very buggy launch.
His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary.
Grimskul wrote: I'm hoping that if this does well that we'll be one step closer to getting a Mass Effect style game with an Inquisitor or Rogue Trader.
Maybe. But if GW is willing to let their CRPG licensee go back to an old licensed PnP RPG, I want a WFRPG set in the Old World.
Give me a convoluted chaos cult iwith red herrings leading to the beastmen in the forests and skaven and necromancers in the tunnels underneath the city and a last minute clash to disrupt a ritual.
Honestly, if someone wants to flesh out Shadows over Bogenhofen and just do that, I'd be OK with it.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Bobthehero wrote: Just so you're aware, Only War already lets you be a hell of a tank. My Guardsman survived an Autocannon round to the face in my first run, and the Stormtrooper I was playing in the other could've survived a crit from a Multi-Melta.
Yeah, though its worth mentioning that is only happening if the damage roll is low.
Assuming you have a toughness in the 40s and Stormtrooper carapace, that gives you a total damage reduction of 10. Autocannon has a pen of 6, so it negates your armor completely and does 3D10+8. You might have 20-25 wounds if you're higher level, but even minimum damage is going to do 11 wounds. Maximum or close to maximum is going to drop you unless you are a space marine in power armor, and its still going to hurt.
"Tanky" in the FFGRPGs really just means you can mostly shrug off lasgun hits. Bigger weapons are still very much a threat.
Even Space Marine's don't have many more wounds than human characters, you just have massive toughness and armor bonuses, but that which does go through hurts a lot. Of course, going to negative wounds isn't fatal. You have to take 5-6 wounds beyond your maximum to actually start losing limbs or dying. Going negative just means you need to really avoid getting hit at all.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
You know one thing I've been very impressed by with these newer games is they do a great job of expressing the sheer scale of 40k. I think that is such an important part of the aesthetic which goes beyond the "nu-gothic" architecture.
Partly because they still have to deliver the 3rd (of 3) DLC for Wrath of the Righteous (tentatively July) and when they released the 2nd DLC, (shortly before the RT announcement) they randomly promised a second set of 3 more DLC packs. (for 'fall').
Makes for a stuffed development schedule.
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2022/06/10 15:52:12
Subject: Re:Rogue Trader, new teaser for a 40k cRPG
Interesting.
I presume the setup here is that You, Player Character von Valancius, have recently inherited your mother's holdings and Writ of Service (or whatever its called).
So, bets on whether this guy is...
Father Figure
Wise Advisor
or
Bitter Advisor of Inevitable Betrayal ("I built this!")
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/10 19:14:09
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
My guess is he's just the advisor. AKA, the Narrator/Dude you talk to in-between missions.
Unless he is a playable dude, in which case he'll either die tragically or betray you to further the plot. Maybe both are an option.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
I had a game once where the narrator/advisor was playable and he could "die" just like any of your other units. If he did, he was no longer playable but still appeared in all the cutscenes, he was just "greviously wounded" and was from then on a non-combatant.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.