Space Marine "Rumorgasm" [B & C]

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**Boss_Salvage**

By way of Crusherjoe on Ultramarine Blues:

From two posts by turelhim vampire at The Bolter and Chainsword:

I don’t know if this has already been mentioned but I don’t have time to scrawl though 38 pages whilst I am at work. I just got off the phone with a GW employee – this was from ringing GW mail order at Nottingham - who had the book in front of him and gleaned a few tid bits.

Salamanders Special Character:
NOT Tu’shan – his name is Vulkan Estan he is the ex-4th Company Captain and is a kind of wandering champion. Apparently he has almost inquisition like leverage over the Salamander Chapter, as his task is to seek out and recover 9 holy relics made by Vulkan before he disappeared. Apparently if all 9 are recovered Vulkan will return. Estan has recovered 3 and is using them. One is a Salamander Hide Cloak, one is a Gauntlet which counts as a Heavy Flamer and allows him to re-roll to wound. The third is the Spear of Vulkan - a S6 master crafted power weapon.

On top of this he allows any and all Salamanders in the army to replace their “vanilla” Combat Tactics with the Salamanders version – they get Master Crafted Thunder Hammers for free. All Melta/flamer weapons in the army, no matter their source, count as twin linked – also for free.

In addition (this is a general marine rule) Storm Shields now grant a 3+ Inv. Save against shooting and combat. And all Salamanders Terminator Assault squads come with them, and there thunder hammers are master crafted if Estan is present.

Also I heard the Spearhead will include:
Codex
Drop pod
Telion
Cantor
Sicarius
Tank Commander character
Scout Bikes
5 Vanguard
5 Sternguard
1x Speeder (could be a storm)

Just thought I’d contribute.

Second Post:

Right, now work is over and I can talk in some depth, here is what I was told:

-The special characters are designed to be taken by any chapter using "counts as" rules.
-If you give a commander a bike, bike squads are troops.
-Tac squads can have any number of marines - from 5 to 10, but can only have special/heavy weapons if you take a full 10 man squad. They can be split into combat squads during deployment. To make up for the "must have 10 for special/heavies" rule flamers, missile launchers, multi-meltas and heavy bolters are now FREE - you only pay points to take the rest of the options.
-Drop pod assault: Half the drop pods deploy on turn 1 - these half have "deployment beacons" that allow the rest (held as reserves) to come in more accurately. Tac squads choose to deploy as combat squads AFTER they land.
-Scouts in all their forms (including the storm) infiltrate in one of two ways - normally or can come in as reserves from ANY table edge and get to use their free "scout" move when they arrive. Scouts are still troops - Marine Airbourne Cavalry of Doom anyone?
-3 Dread options - Standard, Venerable, and Ironclad - all separate elite entries. Venerables are back to how they used to be and have WS/BS 5. Ironclads have 13/13/10 armour, can take 2x DCCW, Hurricane bolter, twin linked heavy flamer, and some others, I forget now. It also has a rule which could be a weapon option called the "seismic hammer" which counts as a thunder hammer and allows difficult terrain tests to be re-roll as it batters terrain out of the way.
-Dreads are crazy now weapons include - Assault Cannon, Multi Melta, twin Heavy Bolters, twin Heavy Flamers, twin las cannon, twin autocannon, plasma cannon, DCCW, Missile Launcher, and maybe more I have forgotten. Oh, and AT LEAST the twin autocannon can be purchased for BOTH arms.
-Sternguard vets have DW style ammo, 2 can take special/heavies/special CCW - Including HEAVY FLAMERS. biggrin.gif For +5pts each they can also take ANY combi weapon - and still keep the specialist ammo type.
-Vanguard vets are similar but are combat-heavy and can have jump packs as an option. Interestingly, they can be further upgraded to "Honour Guard" if you take a Company Master.
-Scouts and Characters can take Combi-Grenade launchers, which are the same as they used to be but are now RAPID FIRE.
-Crusader is now cheaper but does not come with the multi-melta - but this can be purchased as a pintle mounted weapon - possible for ALL land raiders. Redeemer flame cannons are S6 AP3 but are NOT inferno cannons - the template has to touch the weapon - however the machine spirit now allows each weapon on the raider to fire at a separate target.
-There are 13 special characters in total. White Scars character confirmed. No model as yet for him or Vulkan.

Thats all I can remember.

Pure hate from me, shocked that the same design team that gave us the new CSM codex - which I can deal with and have even learned to like - turned around and amped the freaking hell out of the SM codex

- Salvage

EDIT -- Feel free to start discrediting stuff from this list, it smells so damn wishlisty that I want it to all be wrong. It just seems late in the game is all, with the codex right around the corner

**NaZ**

yeah I gotta agree with the wishlisty. would totally wipe out the point of blood angels, black templar, and dark angels if basic marines are that crazy good.

not to mention that it would be WAY overpowered! unless their costs went way up I couldn't see this much crap happening

NaZ

**Deadshane1**

If all this is true, hopefully the point cost will be astronimical for all those toys...evening it out.

**Reecius**

This cant be true, this is sounding pretty over the top. But if it is accurate, wow. SM's FTW and CSM's are nothing more than 10K year old geriatric patients.

Marines should be powerful, but this sounds like a little too much, although the munchkin in me is pretty stoked on the possibilities!

**VermGho5t**

My Claws of Lorek cry if this is true. Oh well!

**Silverthorne**

AWESOME. I don't normally use the capslock key, but I think that it is warranted in this case. I thought that Marine armies would take huge hits in customization with the death of traits, but that seems to be way off base.

I am sure that most of the new stuff will be expensive- in fact, I imagine that almost every non- tactical squad unit in the book gets a moderate price hike, to go along with its buff. They are pretty serious about getting back to the basics and having troops be the most important thing. While the design of 5th ed in general does this, I expect them to accelerate the trend with codex design.

It is interesting to me that all the dark blades from the poor old Chaos codex have somehow made their way into imperial hands. Doesn't the White Scar character have one too? A moon-powered butter knife or something, if I remember the name right. Hopefully the librarians will get some sort of strength boost from their weapons or whatever, to help them cope with the force-weapon nerf a palooza. At a points cost, obviously.

Aside from the hellfire rounds, and the generalized buffing of ordo templates, it seems like their big power boosts have come in the anti-elite categories, which I really like, as it tailors the army thematically. The new details really make them seem like a nice change since in the current codex, the best way to win was heavy weapon spam with a big CC counter attack, or just to flood the field with power armored bodies. The new codex seems like it will make them more elite and expensive-- they can do any job, but there are never enough of them. A very welcome change in my opinion.

**Green Blow Fly**

I am officially a yellow Munchkin now/

G

**akira5665**

Looks like all my wishes have come true.

If a Commander takes a BZike rule for instance. Gold

LR shooting at Multiple Targets. Gold

Pintle Mounted MM. Gold.

Ahhh- I love my Marines all over again.

Need to buy a few Dreads now.......

**Samwise158**

I can't imagine all of these rumors actually being true. The free flamers and multi-melta thing is disgusting. How can they jack up the prices for everything in the Dark Angels army, limit the hell out of the equipment options and then give regular marines free stuff because...sniff... they can't take 5 man las/plas squads anymore? I can see adding some new units and options, but how about not totally making three legendary chapters look like total sissies by comparison.

Like the scouts having the special rule that lets them show up on any table edge... Dark Angel scouts are still going to be rolling on the chart. This is why Chapter Approved is necessary, so that if they actually do half of this goofy crap then at least let all of the marine chapters do it, so you don't invalidate three entire codexii

**Necros**

I could totally see all this uberness being true, because of all those cool things that effect the new models, and all the coolest rules are always made for the new models.

But, I'll believe it all when the book is in my hands.

**Foda_Bett**

I've been doing "count as chapters" for a while now, so Ultramarines with re-rollable melta and flamers is pretty cool.
If all this stuff becomes true I think marines will go up to atleast 20 points a piece, and those characters will be in the 200s.

**MarvinGayeIsMyDaddy**

1) Salamanders sound cool.
2) Free Missile Launchers sounds cool.
3) I want a $20 refund on my Dark Angels codex.

**Voodoo Boyz**

No way this can be true.

Oh well, glad I didn't sell my Marine army...

And is it just me or do scouts sound amazing now?

**Aduro**

I'm hoping it's not true just because I want the Salamanders character to have a Thunder Hammer, not a str6 Power Weapon. Given his rules I'm wanting to make a "counts as" version of him for my army, which yes is and has been Salamander Sub, but then use all my Power Fists as "counts as" Thunder Hammers.

**AgeOfEgos**

*Reads rumours*
*Looks at shelf full of Marines and Land Raiders*

**H.B.M.C.**

Free heavy weapons?

Sure.

BYE

**VermGho5t**

My feelings as a CSM player are summed up with this GIF. (some of you may have seen it before)

**Bahkara**

I just threw up in my mouth.

**Boss_Salvage**

Upshot of this round of OHMYGODTHESEX marine rumors? Validation of the "counts as" mindset with all these damn special characters.

Downshot of the above? Amongst them, ridiculousness of C

A and C:CSM will be around for years until they too get redone. I suppose at the very least C:Chaos Legions is going to be HOLYHELLMYFACE fanfreakingtastic. You know, with codex creep and such

- Salvage

**Bla_Ze**

OUTRAGEOUSLY KINKY! Although i find the rumours about as likley as me being hung like Godzilla.

Also, RAGE!

**Tacobake**

those rumours are CRAAAAAZZZZYYYYYYY.

but interesting.

**Kid_Kyoto**

Deadshane1 wrote:If all this is true, hopefully the point cost will be astronimical for all those toys...evening it out.

Marines pay for advantages?

Deadshane made a funny!

**Deadshane1**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:If all this is true, hopefully the point cost will be astronimical for all those toys...evening it out.

Marines pay for advantages?

Deadshane made a funny!

Well...assuming that Phil Kelly didnt write this codex, it may not be loaded with awesomeness!

**Le Grognard**

I ain't taking nothing as gospel until I have the book in my greasy little paws. I hope some of those are not true, seems a little OTT.

**Clang**

I don't hate any of these _in principle_, but I certainly would if they're 'free' pointswise.

But considering DA and CSM codexes were written with 5th Ed in mind, is it really so silly to think GW will make marine players pay a points penalty for this cool new stuff?

**mattyboy22**

I dunno, I could see them getting free flamer/ ML if a tac marine goes up to 17 points a piece. If you have to have 10 men to get them, then thats 20 extra points over a current ten man squad, which sounds reasonable. Then you've got the "may upgrade ML to lascannon for 5 points" or something to that effect, making it cost the same as it does now. Hopefully that's how it is....

**1hadhq**

Reecius wrote: SM's FTW and CSM's are nothing more than 10K year old geriatric patients.

As it will and should be!

Marines should be powerful, but this sounds like a little too much, although the munchkin in me is pretty stoked on the possibilities!

Wait for the price,we know what they've done with the DA-minidex.

**1hadhq**

Aduro wrote:I'm hoping it's not true just because I want the Salamanders character to have a Thunder Hammer, not a str6 Power Weapon. Given his rules I'm wanting to make a "counts as" version of him for my army, which yes is and has been Salamander Sub, but then use all my Power Fists as "counts as" Thunder Hammers.

You should do this,Salli Thunderhammers count as "mastercrafted" then and didn't lose their attack for second CCW.

**1hadhq**

Marines will change =

was it foreseeable =

anyone looked around and not surprised yet =

The first changes to marines are in the actual 5th ed rulebook :

look at the chart for marines at the last pages (290) and you get that chaplains and librarians were redone.

2004 = chaplain: 5,5,4,4,2,5,2,9,3+ / 5,5,4,4,3,5,3,10,3+ librarian: identical stats

2008 = chaplain: 4,4,4,4,2,4,2,10,3+ librarian: 5,4,4,4,2,4,2,9,3+

For DA = old rules from dex: DA

The chaplains lose on CC and shooting a point ! librarians lose only at shooting one!

This is not a little change.Maybe last only until fall when the dex is out.

No dex for BA and SW now,but will be after SM, makes DA and BT cry,but hey,GW may think of a new chapter approved book

**Kilkrazy**

I hope they don't make SMs too good because if they did, everyone will want to play them.

At the moment it is a refreshing change of pace to find an SM army among the endles hordes of IG, DE, Necrons and so on.